Washington Redskins Thread (2012)

[HalfSmokes]

He's been winning as a dual-threat but it takes longer to develop as a pocket passer.   

Andrew Luck? He's improved a team by 9 games as a rookie pocket passer.

[Terpfan76]

Andrew Luck? He's improved a team by 9 games as a rookie pocket passer.

If I may be so bold, I think what he's saying is that it will take Griffin a little longer to develop his pocket passer skills than his mobile passer skills. I don't agree with that though as he already seems quite comfortable sitting in the pocket, he just had to learn the wr route trees and what not.

[Terpfan76]

Misleading. Snyder spent gobs of money on high profile players,but with a salary cap he didn't spend "crap piles of money".

What? You're nuts. He's spent crap piles of money damn near every season, the issue has been how he's spent it. Damn near the first 10 years he owned the team he spent money on "past their prime" "name" players like he was playing franchise mode on Madden. Sure Shanny made a mistake with McNabb, but at the time, it didn't look like a bad move. Hell, considering what they got in return for getting rid of McNabb (see Morris, Alfred), I'm OK with that. Haynesworth? Yeah, that was a clusterfreak, but move on, it's over with now and all that cost was money. Snyder was going to end up spending piles of money this year too, but Maura and the other bitter owners got sand in their vaginas over Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder breaking a non-rule and penalized them piles of cap space. Guess what Maura, joke's on you nag!

Hell, nag all you want about Shanny, Snyder and company, but like anything else, the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" game and right now, they are doing it right. What the future holds however, is anyone's guess.

[Terpfan76]

Aren't these the same foozball people that traded draft picks for a washed up McNubb, didn't trade Hayneswerthless when he had some value, and staked their reputation on John Beck and Rax Glassjaw?  They hit a home run with RG3 and Morris but people forget the bozo moves these same people made before trading away their future for a guy whose value is gone the second his wheels are gone.

You really don't known anything about football do you? That or you're just repeating what other halfwits on teh interwebs are saying. Griffin is NOT just another mobile qb. If you're going to compare him to any athletic qb it's more accurate to compare him to someone like Steve Young as opposed to Vick or V. Young. I say that not because I think Griffin is as good as Steve Young, but because his game more accurately reflects S. Young than any of those other guys. He's a pocket passer that just so happens to be a tremendous athlete as well. Watch him play for cripe sake. He's still a bit raw and has good deal to learn, but the sky's the limit with RGIII. His work ethic, smarts and poise will serve him well regardless of whether hie loses some of his speed or agility. In my opinion, he's already outplayed any expectations the majority of sane Skins fans have had and only looks to get better. Being dinged up right now is actually forcing him to adjust his style and that will serve him well in the future.

[blue911]

What? You're nuts. He's spent crap piles of money damn near every season, the issue has been how he's spent it. Damn near the first 10 years he owned the team he spent money on "past their prime" "name" players like he was playing franchise mode on Madden. Sure Shanny made a mistake with McNabb, but at the time, it didn't look like a bad move. Hell, considering what they got in return for getting rid of McNabb (see Morris, Alfred), I'm OK with that. Haynesworth? Yeah, that was a clusterfreak, but move on, it's over with now and all that cost was money. Snyder was going to end up spending piles of money this year too, but Maura and the other bitter owners got sand in their vaginas over Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder breaking a non-rule and penalized them piles of cap space. Guess what Maura, joke's on you nag!

Hell, nag all you want about Shanny, Snyder and company, but like anything else, the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" game and right now, they are doing it right. What the future holds however, is anyone's guess.

Salary Cap.

[Terpfan76]

Salary Cap.

Signing bonuses.

[HalfSmokes]

You really don't known anything about football do you? That or you're just repeating what other halfwits on teh interwebs are saying. Griffin is NOT just another mobile qb. If you're going to compare him to any athletic qb it's more accurate to compare him to someone like Steve Young as opposed to Vick or V. Young. I say that not because I think Griffin is as good as Steve Young, but because his game more accurately reflects S. Young than any of those other guys. He's a pocket passer that just so happens to be a tremendous athlete as well. Watch him play for cripe sake. He's still a bit raw and has good deal to learn, but the sky's the limit with RGIII. His work ethic, smarts and poise will serve him well regardless of whether hie loses some of his speed or agility. In my opinion, he's already outplayed any expectations the majority of sane Skins fans have had and only looks to get better. Being dinged up right now is actually forcing him to adjust his style and that will serve him well in the future.

I'll compare him to steve young one he get a couple of rings. He's not a pocket passer that happens to run, he throws a crap ton off of play action and he throws a boat load of bubble screens. His threat to run the ball is what helps stifle the rush and freeze line backers, he's a great young qb, but I'm getting sick of this 'he's really a pocket passer crap.' As far as this expectations, there are three rookie qbs in the playoffs and another two second year qbs (one of whom has been starting less than half a season)- that's a third of teams- you should expect a young qb to be able to make a run now. This isn't the pre-cap era when teams where taking years to build dynasties- year three of a coach is when you should be able to expect playoffs

[HalfSmokes]

Signing bonuses.

count against the cap

[Terpfan76]

I'll compare him to steve young one he get a couple of rings. He's not a pocket passer that happens to run, he throws a crap ton off of play action and he throws a boat load of bubble screens. His threat to run the ball is what helps stifle the rush and freeze line backers, he's a great young qb, but I'm getting sick of this 'he's really a pocket passer crap.' As far as this expectations, there are three rookie qbs in the playoffs and another two second year qbs (one of whom has been starting less than half a season)- that's a third of teams- you should expect a young qb to be able to make a run now. This isn't the pre-cap era when teams where taking years to build dynasties- year three of a coach is when you should be able to expect playoffs

Don't be an ass. You did just what I expected you to do when I mentioned Steve Young: Automatically assumed I was saying he is or will be as good as Young. Not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying he's a passer that can run, not a runner that can heave the ball down the field. Does RGIII and the coaching staff use his athleticism to their advantage? freak yeah they do! For someone that throws nothing but bubble screens and what not, how is it he averages over 8 yards per attempt? Clearly when you watch him play you can see he's more of a complete qb than Vick or V. Young or any other mobile qb that's come a long in a long time especially for a rookie.

Oh and as far as the Shanny's go? Seems like they've done a damn good job working their scheme around Griffin as opposed to forcing him to fit their scheme. Or maybe he's just a perfect fit?

And Griffin is a passer first, maybe "pocket passer" is inaccurate, but he's a passer first, runner second.

[HalfSmokes]

My father was a huge 49ers fan and I grew up watching them- young usually ran when the pocket broke down or after dropping back and seeing a lane. Griffen does do that, but he also runs out of the option and out of designed runs. That reminds me far more of a young Vick. Vick did throw the ball- I remember watching him in 2002 go into green back and end the lambeau playoff streak- that year he threw for 2,900 yards and ran for 777. Griffen is better, but the ratio is similar- thew for 3,200 ran for 815. Compare that to Steve Young who had one year rushing for more than 500 yards

[Slateman]

But as opposed to the LAC camp or whatever, Dan Snyder has never been afraid to spend crap piles of money. It wasn't always spent the right way, but he'd out spend anyone in hopes of winning. I've never agreed with that plan as I'm a "build via the draft and shrewd fa signings" kinda guy, but like him or not, he'll spend whatever it takes. Now that he has legit football people running the show, I think/hope we'll see a whole different kind of Dan Snyder.

He's never been afraid of spending crap piles of money on stuff the public sees. Like the roster and coaches. But he doesn't like to spend it on things like the stadium, staff, and parking lot improvements. Nor does it keep him from charging the highest prices in the NFL.

I actually think the salary cap penalties will be the best thing to happen to the Redskins and Dan Snyder. He won't be able to go crazy in free agency next offseason, and the Skins will be able to keep their core group together. Two years to evaluate what are the actual needs of this team and then he'll be free to spend.

Aren't these the same foozball people that traded draft picks for a washed up McNubb, didn't trade Hayneswerthless when he had some value, and staked their reputation on John Beck and Rax Glassjaw?  They hit a home run with RG3 and Morris but people forget the bozo moves these same people made before trading away their future for a guy whose value is gone the second his wheels are gone.

No one has forgotten. But you have to admit, they've changed quite a bit. Adjusted their playbook and playcalling. Go back to rooting for Diabeetus Cutler ... oh wait

[Terpfan76]

My father was a huge 49ers fan and I grew up watching them- young usually ran when the pocket broke down or after dropping back and seeing a lane. Griffen does do that, but he also runs out of the option and out of designed runs. That reminds me far more of a young Vick. Vick did throw the ball- I remember watching him in 2002 go into green back and end the lambeau playoff streak- that year he threw for 2,900 yards and ran for 777. Griffen is better, but the ratio is similar- thew for 3,200 ran for 815. Compare that to Steve Young who had one year rushing for more than 500 yards

Griffin: 65.6%, 3200yds, 20tds, 5ints, 102.4rtg

Vick: 54.9%, 2936yds, 16tds, 8ints, 81.6rtg

Young: (1992) 66.7%, 3465yds, 25tds, 7ints, 107.0rtg


I chose 1992 for Young because it was his first full season as a starter in SF but he was 32 years old at the time. That being said, who's numbers do Griffin's more resemble? Look, Vick is the single greatest athlete we've seen at this point at QB, Griffin is probably second although much can be said for Cunningham as well, but Griffin is not a run first qb. The scheme at times dictates that he runs the ball, but it's the threat of him running the ball that makes him so dangerous, well that and his amazing play fakes and his accuracy as a passer, and his decision making (for a rookie... or even a vet) etc... Luck or Griffin, couldn't have went wrong with either pick.

[HalfSmokes]

Griffin: 65.6%, 3200yds, 20tds, 5ints, 102.4rtg

Vick: 54.9%, 2936yds, 16tds, 8ints, 81.6rtg

Young: (1992) 66.7%, 3465yds, 25tds, 7ints, 107.0rtg


I chose 1992 for Young because it was his first full season as a starter in SF but he was 32 years old at the time. That being said, who's numbers do Griffin's more resemble? Look, Vick is the single greatest athlete we've seen at this point at QB, Griffin is probably second although much can be said for Cunningham as well, but Griffin is not a run first qb. The scheme at times dictates that he runs the ball, but it's the threat of him running the ball that makes him so dangerous, well that and his amazing play fakes and his accuracy as a passer, and his decision making (for a rookie... or even a vet) etc... Luck or Griffin, couldn't have went wrong with either pick.

young in 1992- 537 yards rushing (career high by 83 yards)- 13 % of his yards came on the grounds. Vick, 20 percent on the ground. Griffen, 20 percent on the ground- if we're talking about passer first vs rusher, his ratio of ground to air is a lot closer to vick's

[Terpfan76]

You just won't give up will you? Griffin runs when it's the best decision to make, not just for craps n giggles. They have some designed run plays, but they call them much less now because of the wear and tear on Griffin. They also trust his decision making when it comes to the zone read. You can keep cherry picking stats that you think proves your point, but that won't make you right. Vick is and always has been a runner that could throw the ball. Griffin is a passer that can also run. Watch a few games, you'll see it whether you want to or not. The Steve Young comparison is much closer than the freaking Vick one. Also, Griffin is far classier than Vick too, but that's neither here nor there.

[HalfSmokes]

Then why are their rush/pass yard ratios the same (even though Griffen was hampered by a brace the last two games)? Watch a few games, griffen runs, a lot- as far as cherry picking, convenient to choose Young's best year rushing

[Terpfan76]

Then why are their rush/pass yard ratios the same (even though Griffen was hampered by a brace the last two games)? Watch a few games, griffen runs, a lot- as far as cherry picking, convenient to choose Young's best year rushing

So should I have chose one of the seasons when he wasn't a starter? Or when he was in crappy Tampa? I wasn't even looking at his rushing stats, I was looking at his passer stats and I didn't mention he was what? 31 as opposed to Griffin being 22. I watch the games and Griffin does run the ball, but only when the situation dicatates it, not just for fun. Oh, and 7.5 carries a game, he sure does tote the rock a lot. Vick in his whole career has never been the passing threat that RGIII is.

[MarquisDeSade]

No one has forgotten. But you have to admit, they've changed quite a bit. Adjusted their playbook and playcalling. Go back to rooting for Diabeetus Cutler ... oh wait

Oh, no doubt, but let's be honest - would the Klanahan's be heralded as genii by the ExtremeSkins and Kool-Ade Krowd if not for landing a once-in-a-lifetime talent?  Look at their track record of success before landing RG3...

As far as Diabeetus Cutler goes - I'm still holding on to the hope he can be mediocre, something that can't be said for the last 60 years of Bears QBs.

[MarquisDeSade]

Watch him play for cripe sake. He's still a bit raw and has good deal to learn, but the sky's the limit with RGIII. His work ethic, smarts and poise will serve him well regardless of whether hie loses some of his speed or agility. In my opinion, he's already outplayed any expectations the majority of sane Skins fans have had and only looks to get better. Being dinged up right now is actually forcing him to adjust his style and that will serve him well in the future.

I have watched him and he is great, no argument there, but if you really think he's still going to be breaking insane plays once his speed or agility is gone you're out of your mind.

[spidernat]

Salary Cap.

Signing bonuses.

blue's got you there. It's been demonstrated that Snyder was not really spending the crap loads of money most people seemed to think. It was just an illusion created by the inflated numbers of signing bonuses and "the life of the contract". Contracts that never saw the backloaded end years because players were released or tore up the contracts in order to recreate another illusions of spending. All that was happening was creative salary cap maneuvering but the salary cap prevented Snyder from ACTUALLY spending more than most other owners.

[spidernat]

Ban the trolls from this thread please!   

[MarquisDeSade]

Ban the trolls from this thread please!   

Oh come on.  Outside of the usual crybaby nobody here is getting bent (too) out of shape and everyone's learning something and being constructive in their discussion.  I even deleted a couple of comments that were out of line. 

[sportsfan882]

Why are you so bitter that the Redskins are good?

[HalfSmokes]

So should I have chose one of the seasons when he wasn't a starter? Or when he was in crappy Tampa? I wasn't even looking at his rushing stats, I was looking at his passer stats and I didn't mention he was what? 31 as opposed to Griffin being 22. I watch the games and Griffin does run the ball, but only when the situation dicatates it, not just for fun. Oh, and 7.5 carries a game, he sure does tote the rock a lot. Vick in his whole career has never been the passing threat that RGIII is.

I never said vick was a good  passer, just that RG3 is closer to him than young in terms of run first vs pass first. By the way, Young, for his career averaged 4.3 rush attempts per game (4.8 in 1992), Vick for his career is at 6.5 (7.5 in 02, 8 in 03 and 04 when he was at his best), pro-football-reference has RG3 at 8 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrifRo01.htm), so if you consider Vick a rusher (most do), the RG3 falls into the same category

[Terpfan76]

Why are you so bitter that the Redskins are good?

Been paying attention much? It has to do with his hatred for Shanny and Rexy. Irrational? yes!


I see Spidey. If it was just an illusion though, why did high price FAs keep signing here? I guess what I was getting at was that if you are Shanny and you tell Dan Snyder you want player X, more than likely you're going to get player X. There's something to be said for that.

[HalfSmokes]

Been paying attention much? It has to do with his hatred for Shanny and Rexy. Irrational? yes!


I see Spidey. If it was just an illusion though, why did high price FAs keep signing here? I guess what I was getting at was that if you are Shanny and you tell Dan Snyder you want player X, more than likely you're going to get player X. There's something to be said for that.

Snyder being GM or with an awful GM was a train wreck, but Snyder with a competent GM will be a great owner since his job will amount to saying yes.