Author Topic: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact  (Read 252211 times)

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Offline Five Banners

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2525 on: April 29, 2022, 07:49:39 am »
Terrible deal but one that had to be made or no Washington team. If memory serves.


The status at the time appeared to be that there was a franchise in Baltimore whose only defined and legally enforceable rights related to relocation (Baltimore and the counties directly adjacent to it) whose existence was granted by another market (D.C.). The official MLB relocation territory has been in the city in which the team is and the counties the touch that city. For the Orioles, that’s Howard and Anne Arundel county as their southwest limit. Additionally, media market was not something owned by the Orioles under MLB rules.

The NFL had something similar when the Redskins were technically the de facto team of the south media-wise in the absence of another one for years. When teams would come in such as Atlanta and New Orleans and later Carolina and Tennessee, the Redskins weren’t owed anything, but had just been able to get while the getting was good.

When the Nationals (which was a primary designation at the time that the baseball Browns moved to Baltimore) / Senators left for Texas, Baltimore made the most of it and marketed to the growing national capital area for a period of time to get an improved media share, but they were not guaranteed anything under baseball’s existing rules. The Baltimore owner / lawyer appeared to bluff Selig into cutting him a sweetheart media rights deal (the three previous owners had only requested that a relocated or expansion DC team be in the National League). Evidently protective of MLB’s anti-trust exemption and reportedly lawsuit-averse (potentially due to discovery), Selig added on as a condition of MLB’s relocation back to the area a media rights construct to the benefit of that owner. However, going by the strict rules, they apparently were not even owed that.

While MLB was caretaking the Expos after the Loria/Henry switcheroo, Angelos evidently figured he had nothing to lose by making a play for free money in perpetuity. Selig was seemingly incentivized by a goal of not allowing in ownership in a major market who would spend freely aided by their media rights situation (remember how he said he set a sales price figure rather than letting a bidding war escalate). I recall some reports at the time that when the team was to end up in DC proper rather than Virginia – – the latter of which Selig apparently preferred according to later comments from relocation committee head Reinsdorf, Angelos reportedly used that and being on the same side of the Potomac to argue for the additional protection (sic) needed of this deal. Another pot sweetener appears to have been the rights fees arrangement.

With the incoming owner incentivized to not sue over a deal that gave rights where there were none to the detriment of the D.C. market franchise -- or they wouldn't get the team, what seemed like such an unethical deal was hatched. Selig was reportedly not ignorant of this absence of rights, nor that he also had the power of the best interest of baseball clause to box in Angelos on the matter if necessary to a great degree, as Angelos had no veto. However, I recall there was some pointing at the time to Selig’s evident reluctance to get into any potential legal back-and-forth when a path of least resistance could be found, especially one decade after federal judge Padova ruled in Piazza vs. MLB that baseball’s antitrust exemption applied only to player contracts.

Moreover, Baltimore has an adequate market from which to draw, especially since the lion’s share of the Nationals’ fanbase reportedly comes from Virginia. A smart owner would focus on Maryland as well as south central Pennsylvania, much of which is about an hour from Baltimore. Arguably, the current Orioles owner has seemed to have an outsized focus on the team that returned to the DC market rather than on his own team, judging by the results.

Aagin, the fact this was a return to an existing market rather than a level of encroachment where Baltimore already had the media rights to begin with further undercut the supposed logic or need for compensation and redress. That’s especially the case when there was a team in this defined market that existed at the time that the Browns moved to Baltimore.

It’s bad enough that what looks like such a corrupted construct as this doesn’t seem to have ever been adequately challenged. For MASN/Angelos to still be able to not actually have paid their share that they agreed to is just pathetically ridiculous.

Online imref

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2526 on: April 30, 2022, 11:29:45 am »
via The Athletic:

Quote
Nationals said Orioles-run MASN cut off profit sharing in 2018
The Washington Nationals said the Baltimore Orioles have withheld distributions from their shared regional sports network, Mid-Atlantic Sports Network (MASN), since 2018, in the latest dustup between the teams over the broadcaster.

The disclosure came from a Nationals attorney during a court hearing this week in the long-running lawsuit over the rights fees MASN pays the Nationals.

“MASN is an entity that is completely controlled and managed by the Orioles,” Stephen Neuwirth of Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, the D.C. baseball team’s outside counsel, said at the New York State Supreme Court session. “The Nationals have no say whatsoever. … Since 2018, MASN has stopped all profit distributions to the parties, which is very important money for cash flow purposes to the Nationals.”

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2527 on: April 30, 2022, 02:14:59 pm »
So people are talking about potential MLB expansion but wouldn’t this same situation come up again as each city added would impact an existing team’s TV market? How would that work?

Offline Smithian

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2528 on: April 30, 2022, 03:53:52 pm »
Exactly. We can argue all day about them as owners, but the Lerner family is damn good at business and although 30 million extra a year may not make or break them, it's a huge point of principle. I doubt they like having a not as wealthy owner in a lesser quality market try to dictate terms of a business agreement to them.
This take has aged poorly these past ten years, especially in light of recent news.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2529 on: May 01, 2022, 03:21:33 pm »
A decade later and I’m still right. The line to be Boris Karloff forms to the left.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2530 on: May 01, 2022, 05:24:40 pm »
A decade later and I’m still right. The line to be Boris Karloff forms to the left.

I preferred the heavy fentanyl version of this post.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2531 on: May 01, 2022, 05:31:54 pm »
I preferred the heavy fentanyl version of this post.

The jannies here said there were many such complaints so it got deleted.  Very sad but that’s how the cookie crumbles around herre now. Very sad.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2532 on: May 01, 2022, 08:25:33 pm »
So mach fapping

Offline nfotiu

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2533 on: May 01, 2022, 09:14:22 pm »
Quote from: imref link=topic=25582.msg2246967#msg2246967 date=
via The Athletic:

It kind of blows me away that the money owed to the Nats from this fiasco is likely more than half the value of the Nationals.  MASN has brought in at least a couple billion in this timeline, so there is money going to someone, and it's not going to the payroll of either teams.

Online Slateman

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2534 on: May 01, 2022, 11:17:17 pm »
The lawyers must be making more money than Scrooge McDuck

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2535 on: May 02, 2022, 07:00:21 am »
It kind of blows me away that the money owed to the Nats from this fiasco is likely more than half the value of the Nationals.  MASN has brought in at least a couple billion in this timeline, so there is money going to someone, and it's not going to the payroll of either teams.

MASN hasn’t brought in anywhere close to that amount of money.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2536 on: May 02, 2022, 10:58:18 am »
There is an article referenced in this thread from 2012 quoting MASN subscriber rate of 2.14/month and having 5.4 million subscribers.    Following trends in the industry, they've probably lost about 25% of those subscribers and carriage fees likely have gone up to $5-6/month.   They were around 140 million in carriage fee revenue in 2012 plus 30 million in other revenue, and have probably climbed to around $200-$300 million for most of the last 6-7 years.   So, that is easily over 2 billion in revenue over 10 years.



Offline UMDNats

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2537 on: May 02, 2022, 11:26:41 am »
Can't believe it's been almost 20 years since MASN began to exist and the Nats are still held back by a bunch of Baltimore losers and their loser organization.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2538 on: May 02, 2022, 11:37:34 am »
There is an article referenced in this thread from 2012 quoting MASN subscriber rate of 2.14/month and having 5.4 million subscribers.    Following trends in the industry, they've probably lost about 25% of those subscribers and carriage fees likely have gone up to $5-6/month.   They were around 140 million in carriage fee revenue in 2012 plus 30 million in other revenue, and have probably climbed to around $200-$300 million for most of the last 6-7 years.   So, that is easily over 2 billion in revenue over 10 years.
Yea and they run it on the cheap so lots of profit.  May Angelos rot in hell.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2539 on: May 02, 2022, 11:41:15 am »
Yea and they run it on the cheap so lots of profit.  May Angelos rot in hell.

MASN pays their broadcasters and employees the lowest of any RSN (my educated guess), runs next to 0 programming outside of games (and never has) and did not invest in their website, broadcast production or advancements in their programming one time in almost 20 years. Just an unfathomable amount of greed from the Orioles and Angelos who have used the network as the last chance to suck off the MLB teet as the Orioles fade into obscurity and either move or take their place as the team that the rest of the AL East gets to curb stomp.

Offline machpost

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2540 on: May 02, 2022, 01:39:02 pm »
MASN pays their broadcasters and employees the lowest of any RSN (my educated guess), runs next to 0 programming outside of games (and never has)
For years they filled time every afternoon with a single stationary camera pointed at talking heads in the studio of a Baltimore sports talk station. It was agonizing. And I believe the only reason why we get Nats games in HD on MASN is because MLB mandates it.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2541 on: May 02, 2022, 02:17:58 pm »
This whole thing is so off-putting as a fan.   It's annoying on its own that RSNs collect take at least $60/year from millions of oblivious customers who don't even watch the games.    To have that money not even go into the Nats (or the Os), and instead all into Angelos's pockets, is beyond infuriating.  It really should be criminal, considering tax payers help fund their stadiums.   Both teams are a financial mess and this legal situation really hampers the ability to sell the teams or stakes in the teams.


Offline catocony

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2542 on: May 02, 2022, 05:09:03 pm »
This whole thing is so off-putting as a fan.   It's annoying on its own that RSNs collect take at least $60/year from millions of oblivious customers who don't even watch the games.    To have that money not even go into the Nats (or the Os), and instead all into Angelos's pockets, is beyond infuriating.  It really should be criminal, considering tax payers help fund their stadiums.   Both teams are a financial mess and this legal situation really hampers the ability to sell the teams or stakes in the teams.
For MASN to have 5.4 million subscribers, that must count things like DirecTV Sports Pack where you get all RSNs across the country but none of the live games except the one or ones in your area.  They aren't getting full subscriber fees - which are now around $5.00 a month on DTV - from all of them.  There's aren't that many cable/satellite subscribers in the marketing zone that MASN has.

The 5.4 million number has probably come down since so many people have cut cable/satellite and now stream everything.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2543 on: May 02, 2022, 06:07:51 pm »
For MASN to have 5.4 million subscribers, that must count things like DirecTV Sports Pack where you get all RSNs but none of the live games.  They aren't getting full subsriber fees - which are now around $5.00 a month on DTV - from all of them.  There's aren't that many cable/satellite subscribers in the marketing zone that MASN has.
Their territory is quite large.   All of Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, DC and a lot of NC, PA, WV.   

This was from a sports business article earlier in the thread that is paywalled

MASN, meanwhile, has filed an exhibit with the court documenting how cord-cutting is impacting the RSN. The network’s subscriber count has steadily fallen from 5.91 million in-market and 3.32 million out-of-market in late 2011 to 4.68 million in-market and 2.06 out-of-market at the end of last year. MASN has lost at least 4 per cent of its in-market subscribers each of the last four years, and at least 10 per cent of its out-of-market subscribers each of the last two years.


Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2544 on: May 07, 2022, 11:45:55 pm »
So how bad are things at MASN? They gutted their on-air talent so I’m sure the behind-the-scenes cuts were even worse. They don’t even do any program other than Nats and Orioles game as they cut their studio shows (the Saturday morning call-in shows for each team, the 90-minute Atlantic Sports Reports on weeknights and the pre- and postgame shows for each team). They’ve probably mothballed their studio and sold all the equipment for whatever money they could get. I noticed that even though longtime Orioles host (back to the HTS days) Tom Davis fell victim to the budget axe last year, he still hosts some shows. The last time I saw “Take Me Out to the Ballgame,” he was filming it from a park bench. Tonight I got home late and turned to MASN looking for the Nats game and I got “Touchdown Baltimore” with Davis and his two co-hosts/guests broadcasting from - I crap you not - a Royal Farms convenience store. The had a mini studio with three stools and lighting set up in the store! Royal Farms probably lets Davis/MASN tape the show there in exchange for the free advertising.

What a pathetic excuse for a network. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2545 on: May 08, 2022, 09:22:57 am »
When Wayne and Garth have a better studio, it says something

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2546 on: May 08, 2022, 09:54:02 am »
Davis buys time on MASN with Royal Farms as his main sponsor, it's not a MASN produced show. Get Walter's Sports Bar to sponsor a WNFF show.

Offline machpost

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2547 on: May 09, 2022, 08:48:50 am »
So how bad are things at MASN? They gutted their on-air talent so I’m sure the behind-the-scenes cuts were even worse. They don’t even do any program other than Nats and Orioles game as they cut their studio shows (the Saturday morning call-in shows for each team, the 90-minute Atlantic Sports Reports on weeknights and the pre- and postgame shows for each team). They’ve probably mothballed their studio and sold all the equipment for whatever money they could get. I noticed that even though longtime Orioles host (back to the HTS days) Tom Davis fell victim to the budget axe last year, he still hosts some shows. The last time I saw “Take Me Out to the Ballgame,” he was filming it from a park bench. Tonight I got home late and turned to MASN looking for the Nats game and I got “Touchdown Baltimore” with Davis and his two co-hosts/guests broadcasting from - I crap you not - a Royal Farms convenience store. The had a mini studio with three stools and lighting set up in the store! Royal Farms probably lets Davis/MASN tape the show there in exchange for the free advertising.

What a pathetic excuse for a network. 

Seems plausible, as Kolko's pre- and post-game shows seem to originate in a new studio somewhere inside Nats Park that looks like it might be reusing the desk and some of the set elements from the old studio at MASN.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2548 on: May 09, 2022, 12:50:43 pm »
Is Phil Wood still broadcasting on MASN giving bad takes? 

Online imref

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #2549 on: May 09, 2022, 12:54:15 pm »
Is Phil Wood still broadcasting on MASN giving bad takes? 

he's retired now AFAIK.