Author Topic: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.  (Read 2678 times)

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Offline tomterp

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 09:24:32 am »
You guys realize you're mis-attributing the statements and motives of many different people to a singular fictional entity/group/person, right?  :?


Not mis-attributing, I'm attributing the statements and motives of many different people to a singular fictional entity/group/person.   :mg:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 09:26:29 am »
Not mis-attributing, I'm attributing the statements and motives of many different people to a singular fictional entity/group/person.   :mg:

It's mis-attribution because that entity doesn't exist.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 09:33:25 am »
It's mis-attribution because that entity doesn't exist.

You are telling me a fictional entity doesn't exist?     :doh:

Perhaps you should become more familiar with the concept of mindfacts.   

 :crackup:


Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 09:36:31 am »

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 09:37:31 am »
Quote
Yes, and yet people are falling all over themselves demanding Rizzo blow big $ on free agent contracts this offseason.  CC!  Reyes!  Wilson!

It seems more of those mega-deals fail than succeed for the clubs giving them.
One of the problems with free agency is the fallacy that the best on the market is worth a contract comparable or better than the best on the market in the past.  There are very few players worth 5+ years and $100+MM.  Far fewer than there are contracts of that type. This is especially the case for ballplayers who hit free agency in their 30s. 

Consider last year's outfield class.  It is probably true that there will be no FA outfielder this year who is as good as Werth or Crawford was going into last year's free agent period.  I don't buy Posnanski's critique of Crawford's pre-2011 career trajectory because any reference to his career SLG up to that point misses that he was growing into power as he hit 28 /29, right when he should have been.   Also, Werth had put up 3 or 4 good years in a row offensively and was not of the body type that deteriorates fast.  I'll admit I probably fall victim to the Crawford is one of the most exciting ballplayers in baseball v. one of the best players in baseball mistake.  There is no way these guys were in the absolute elite of baseball. We are not talking A-Rod in his prime, or Miggy, or even Longoria / Hamilton level.  Werth of course was overpaid to get him to come to a building ballclub, much like Pudge and Magglio were overpaid to build up Detroit.  But Boston's reaction, to say Werth set the market and overpay for Crawford because he was the best OF available until the 2013 class of FAs, was dumb.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2011, 09:45:59 am »
You are telling me a fictional entity doesn't exist?     :doh:

Would you be happier with "not real"?  If I didn't specify that the entity was fictional, you could insist that it wasn't a mis-attribution.  Either way, you're just being a pedant and :stir: ing

I should know ;)

Quote
Perhaps you should become more familiar with the concept of mindfacts.

Perhaps you'd care to explain what I've mindfacted on :shrug:

Offline tomterp

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2011, 09:51:14 am »
Would you be happier with "not real"?  If I didn't specify that the entity was fictional, you could insist that it wasn't a mis-attribution.  Either way, you're just being a pedant and :stir: ing


My point is, OF COURSE a fictional entity doesn't exist, that's what makes it fictional.    :roll:

And stop throwing fancy words at me, you're trying to distract me from your redudancies.

 :razz:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2011, 09:53:41 am »
My point is, OF COURSE a fictional entity doesn't exist, that's what makes it fictional.    :roll:

And stop throwing fancy words at me, you're trying to distract me from your redudancies.

 :razz:

It's not redundant.  Nothing else in my statements asserts or implies that the entity is fictional :mg:

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2011, 09:54:12 am »
If Werth strikes out 200 times next year I'm getting a custom Werthless -28 jersey.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2011, 09:57:04 am »
Split off the Morgan thing to its own thread, seemed headline-worthy:

http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=25037.0

Offline tomterp

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2011, 10:00:18 am »
It's not redundant.  Nothing else in my statements asserts or implies that the entity is fictional :mg:

Oh yes, you said my little fictional entity doesn't exist, but it does exist as a fact in my mind. 

Fictional entities are real too, you know.   

And that's why you're wrong on the Werth contract.

 :couch:

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2011, 10:05:02 am »
I don't disagree with Jagr obviously, but the Caps didn't give up anything for him.



Was he a free agent?  I thought we traded for him.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2011, 10:17:26 am »
Why not wait until Werth's tenure in DC is over before making this troll-like declaration?   The other three you cited were granted the same courtesy.  :?

The thread topic is Werth's contract, the other three are only relevant in relation to the albatross.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2011, 10:20:04 am »
Yes, and yet people are falling all over themselves demanding Rizzo blow big $ on free agent contracts this offseason.  CC!  Reyes!  Wilson!

It seems more of those mega-deals fail than succeed for the clubs giving them.

Only a small number of teams win consistently, they have high payrolls and spend smart, tough to do.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2011, 10:31:03 am »
You guys realize you're mis-attributing the statements and motives of many different people to a singular fictional entity/group/person, right?  :?

Stay classy, SsS :poke:

Now look who's mis-attributing.  I'm neither SsS or LoD.   ;)

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2011, 10:34:43 am »
The thread topic is Werth's contract, the other three are only relevant in relation to the albatross.

So then you admit the data you use to make your argument is flawed, to say the least?

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2011, 10:47:02 am »
Did any big money position player signed as a free agent in the off-season have a good season this year? I know Dunn, Werth, and Crawford all stunk to varying degrees, and I think those were the only big position player signings. Gonzalez got big money but he wasn't a free agent.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2011, 11:01:12 am »
The only guy I can think of is Russell Martin. Even then he was just average.

Edit:

Adrian Beltre
Lance Berkman

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Werth(less) only #9 in ten worst contracts in baseball.
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2011, 11:52:00 am »
Victor Martinez, if your definition of big money is AAV.  Also Mo Rivera.

Posnanski says he thinks contracts should be restructured at the upper end of the market to have higher AAVs and fewer years.  I like the idea.  would people feel more comfortable with signing a CJ Wilson to 3 years, $65 MM than 5 years, $90 MM?