2011 Trade Watch (was trade deadline watch)

[HalfSmokes]

Ramos may one day be the second coming of Jason Kendall, but I'd like to see this team make some kind of a run while Zimmerman is still here (maybe I'm sentimental)

[Rasta]

Defensive catchers can be found easier than CFs, unless Ankiel is going to be kept around

Career Stats

Ramos - .248/.310/.408 - 718 OPS
Upton - .256/.340/.411 - 751 OPS

Upton is nothing more than potential right now.  I don't see how he helps us make a run unless he magically starts living up to that potential.  He still has a lot of it but I don't see how it's worth giving up a potential stud catcher.  

[wpa2629]

Ramos may one day be the second coming of Jason Kendall, but I'd like to see this team make some kind of a run while Zimmerman is still here (maybe I'm sentimental)

So would I, but trading Ramos for Upton is one step up and 2 steps back, that's doesn't get us there. Nats have to pursue other options that make more sense overall for the team. But I'm with you on the sentimentality of the situation.

[sportsfan882]

SPTimesRays Marc Topkin
This could explain things: #Rays Upton told teammates he has some tightness in his quad

SPTimesRays Marc Topkin
#Rays Upton gut feeling on getting traded: "I think I'll be here. I don't think I'm going anywhere."

[wpa2629]

I think in the end the Rays are going to be asking too much for Upton

[Slateman]

There's a molina available next year- I don't see any good center fielders out there

Can you promise us that he won't be re-signed or signed by someone else ... like Boston ...

Tell you what. If they sign him in the offseason, they can still trade Ramos for Upton in the offseason.

Career Stats

Ramos - .248/.310/.408 - 718 OPS
Upton - .256/.340/.411 - 751 OPS

Upton is nothing more than potential right now.  I don't see how he helps us make a run unless he magically starts living up to that potential.  He still has a lot of it but I don't see how it's worth giving up a potential stud catcher. 

I don't think of Upton as potential. He's just ... not playing as well as he can. Okay, maybe potential. But Ramos has potential. They both have it, but its in different ways.

[NatsSince05]

You don't fill one hole by creating another. That makes no sense. Ramos for Upton would be a terrible trade

Agree.  I'm pretty sure this is nonsense.

[HalfSmokes]

So we keep our potential laden catcher and let everyone develop a little more next year and win a few more games (maybe take 4th place) then flip Zimmerman in the off season and hope Rendon is ready?

[wpa2629]

So we keep our potential laden catcher and let everyone develop a little more next year and win a few more games (maybe take 4th place) then flip Zimmerman in the off season and hope Rendon is ready?

Yeah, I'm not even going to respond to this

[Slateman]

So we keep our potential laden catcher and let everyone develop a little more next year and win a few more games (maybe take 4th place) then flip Zimmerman in the off season and hope Rendon is ready?

Or re-sign Ryan to a deal?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

FWIW, Span played tonight in his rehab with Rochester.  stole a base, his second there.

[HalfSmokes]

Yeah, I'm not even going to respond to this

After watching this team get dismantled by the fins (who are ever bit as young and full of potential as we are), I'm sick of hearing about how good our young guys are going to be- this team doesn't look markedly better than it did last year- this cycle seems pretty much the same every year

[Slateman]

After watching this team get dismantled by the fins (who are ever bit as young and full of potential as we are), I'm sick of hearing about how good our young guys are going to be- this team doesn't look markedly better than it did last year- this cycle seems pretty much the same every year

But the Marlins always dismantle the Nats. If it weren't for us, they wouldn't be over .500

[Rasta]

So we keep our potential laden catcher and let everyone develop a little more next year and win a few more games (maybe take 4th place) then flip Zimmerman in the off season and hope Rendon is ready?

I don't see how trading away a potential laden C for a potential laden CF makes us any better.  A CF hitting sub .250 is actually worse than a C hitting sub .250.  The difference is that Ramos has less than a full year of big league experience.  Upton almost 6 years and has trended downward the past few.  I'm just not seeing how bringing him in makes us better. 

And I guess I missed the part where we can't resign Zim.  He'll be 27 in September and has quite a few good years left.  It's not like he'll be washed up in 2012 or 2013 when hopefully this team is ready to compete for a playoff spot. 

[HalfSmokes]

But the Marlins always dismantle the Nats. If it weren't for us, they wouldn't be over .500

The braves and phillies do to, and it wouldn't be a problem except that they are in our division

[Slateman]

The braves and phillies do to, and it wouldn't be a problem except that they are in our division

This year we've played the Braves and Phils pretty tight.

Rasta's right. Why are we trading a potential laden catcher for a 27 year old CF who's on his way to this third down year in a row. Right now, the only thing Upton has on Bernadina is some more power.

[HalfSmokes]

And I guess I missed the part where we can't resign Zim.  He'll be 27 in September and has quite a few good years left.  It's not like he'll be washed up in 2012 or 2013 when hopefully this team is ready to compete for a playoff spot. 

I'd rather not depend on it- the Yankees have a third baseman on his last legs and we're talking about a guy who won't sign a kid's ball for free

[wpa2629]

After watching this team get dismantled by the fins (who are ever bit as young and full of potential as we are), I'm sick of hearing about how good our young guys are going to be- this team doesn't look markedly better than it did last year- this cycle seems pretty much the same every year

Tonight's game has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.  There are literally 1 million things that can and will happen between now and the end of NEXT season. I'm not going to respond to some speculation about what may or may not happen 18 months from now.

[Slateman]

I'd rather not depend on it- the Yankees have a third baseman on his last legs and we're talking about a guy who won't sign a kid's ball for free

Link to said story?

[HalfSmokes]

Tonight's game has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.  There are literally 1 million things that can and will happen between now and the end of NEXT season. I'm not going to respond to some speculation about what may or may not happen 18 months from now.

How many years until games matter?

[Tyler Durden]

I wouldn't trade Ramos, either.  Flores looks like he needs time in AAA if he's ever going to get back to what he was.  Norris is probably a couple of years away and is no sure thing.

If Span can't be had and the Rays are asking too much for Upton, then just stick with Bernie for the rest of the year.  We're not winning the division or wild card, anyway.

I don't think the Phils need Upton.  They need a corner OF bat.  The Braves might decide to upgrade from Schafer and whoever, though.  The Indians have Sizemore for 8 mil next year so they probably won't trade for him.  The Reds have way too many OFs already even after sending us Gomes plus they have Stubbs right now. 

I don't see too much of a market for all these CF's.  But if the Rays and Astros and Twins are holding out for too much, just punt and wait for the offseason.  That would be a lot less bad than trading too much for one of those guys right now.

[wpa2629]

How many years until games matter?

What are you talking about?  

Listen, seriously, you're a really good poster and I enjoy discussing the Nats with you.  But this conversation is just going nowhere. I don't know how many different ways you want me to say the same thing. Trading a rookie starting catcher where there are no other reliable catcher's in the entire organization, to acquire a veteren centerfielder, starting to show signs of decline, is not a good trade. That's it. That's all there is to it.

[Slateman]

I wouldn't trade Ramos, either.  Flores looks like he needs time in AAA if he's ever going to get back to what he was.  Norris is probably a couple of years away and is no sure thing.

If Span can't be had and the Rays are asking too much for Upton, then just stick with Bernie for the rest of the year.  We're not winning the division or wild card, anyway.

I don't think the Phils need Upton.  They need a corner OF bat.  The Braves might decide to upgrade from Schafer and whoever, though.  The Indians have Sizemore for 8 mil next year so they probably won't trade for him.  The Reds have way too many OFs already even after sending us Gomes plus they have Stubbs right now. 

I don't see too much of a market for all these CF's.  But if the Rays and Astros and Twins are holding out for too much, just punt and wait for the offseason.  That would be a lot less bad than trading too much for one of those guys right now.

Has Cleveland picked up Sizemore's 2012 option already? I was under the impression they weren't going to

[Rasta]

How many years until games matter?

I'm as pissed as anyone that this team has sucked but that is a totally different topic.  We were discussing Upton for Ramos.  If we're discussing frustration over the past few years then I think we'd all agree.  But Rizzo has only been in control for less than 2 years.  It takes a lot longer than that to turn around one of the worst franchises in baseball.

[Rasta]

I'd rather not depend on it- the Yankees have a third baseman on his last legs and we're talking about a guy who won't sign a kid's ball for free

Considering ARod's deal runs through 2017 at 27.5M per year I don't see them throwing another 100M at Zim.  The Yankees have silly money but I just don't see that happening.  They have ridiculous cash already tied up in their infield.  Sure it could happen but it's just as likely that Zim stays.  He's already said if the team is moving in the right direction that this is his first choice. 

And as much as I like Zim, he needs to stay healthy.