Author Topic: 2012 free agency (Read 44788 times)

zimm_da_kid · « **Reply #875 on:** October 24, 2011, 06:32:22 pm »

yes to oswalt, no to buerhle.

Evolution33 · « **Reply #876 on:** October 25, 2011, 08:56:22 am »

Quote from: zimm_da_kid on October 24, 2011, 06:32:22 pm

yes to oswalt, no to buerhle.

Why? I would think it would be the other way around. Strasburg, Oswalt, Zimmermann is an all right handed top of the order and Oswalt has had injury issues. Beuhrle has been nothing but a dependable lefty for his entire career.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #877 on:** October 25, 2011, 08:59:49 am »

I'd take either

Evolution33 · « **Reply #878 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:06:30 am »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on October 25, 2011, 08:59:49 am

I'd take either

Why not both? I am sure it would cost less in years and money than CJ Wilson.

Lintyfresh85 · « **Reply #879 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:09:34 am »

The last thing the Nationals need is another soft toss lefthander who can't strikeout a hitter to save his life.

Evolution33 · « **Reply #880 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:15:06 am »

Clearly the Nats couldn't use a guy with 11 straight 200 inning seasons, a career ERA of 3.83, FIP of 4.13, and an average of 4.1 WAR since becoming a full time starter.

Tyler Durden · « **Reply #881 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:17:36 am »

Quote from: Evolution33 on October 25, 2011, 09:06:30 am

Why not both? I am sure it would cost less in years and money than CJ Wilson.

This would be quite a splash. We could have CMW as the 5th starter and trade Lannan plus either Detwiler or Gorzelanny and keep the other as the long reliever. Or trade all of them and bring Livo back as the long reliever. Or Stammen.

Lintyfresh85 · « **Reply #882 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:33:28 am »

Quote from: Evolution33 on October 25, 2011, 09:15:06 am

Clearly the Nats couldn't use a guy with 11 straight 200 inning seasons, a career ERA of 3.83, FIP of 4.13, and an average of 4.1 WAR since becoming a full time starter.

And when he finally starts performing to what his xFIP says he is, because he has the Nats defense behind him... I'm sure we'll all rejoice.

Question: What does this series of numbers represent?

4.32
5.15
5.76
4.43
4.24
4.78

Answer: Mark Buehrle's strike out rate since 2006.

Is he better than John Lannan? Hell yes he is.

Do the Nats need two John Lannan's? No, they don't.

imref · « **Reply #883 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:45:51 am »

espn is reporting the Yankees would prefer Darvish over Wilson.

Lintyfresh85 · « **Reply #884 on:** October 25, 2011, 09:49:11 am »

Wilson could easily be pitching himself into a Nats contract below what his true value lies.

Tyler Durden · « **Reply #885 on:** October 25, 2011, 10:10:02 am »

Quote from: Lintyfresh85 on October 25, 2011, 09:33:28 am

And when he finally starts performing to what his xFIP says he is, because he has the Nats defense behind him... I'm sure we'll all rejoice.

Question: What does this series of numbers represent?

4.32
5.15
5.76
4.43
4.24
4.78

Answer: Mark Buehrle's strike out rate since 2006.

Is he better than John Lannan? Hell yes he is.

Do the Nats need two John Lannan's? No, they don't.

Without looking at the stats, I don't think the White Sox defense is all that great. Also, John Lannan had a decent year with the Nats defense behind him.

Lintyfresh85 · « **Reply #886 on:** October 25, 2011, 10:14:29 am »

I'll end this argument before it begins.

I do not trust pitchers that rely on their defense for success nearly as much as I do pitchers that can strike out hitters.

My view point isn't going to change on that. Any posts brought up to refute my opinion are going to go unanswered by me... So if you want to tell me why I'm wrong in thinking that way, go ahead, but I'm not going to respond.

I think its clear what I value in a pitcher is a bit different than most.

Evolution33 · « **Reply #887 on:** October 25, 2011, 10:29:48 am »

Quote from: Tyler Durden on October 25, 2011, 10:10:02 am

Without looking at the stats, I don't think the White Sox defense is all that great. Also, John Lannan had a decent year with the Nats defense behind him.

When I look at Buehrle I see a guy like Jim Palmer who had an entire career of outperforming what his expected numbers where. Lannan is a guy I don't fully trust because he hasn't been successful for 11 years like Buehrle has, but if he does end up like that then good for him. The White Sox had bad outfield defense in 2011, but Ramirez had an 11.9 UZR and Beckham 4.9. Of course that is just last year. The White Sox haven't had the same defense for the last 11 seasons.

Tyler Durden · « **Reply #888 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:03:37 am »

Lannan's big issue is walking too many guys. If he could cut that down to Buerhle-like levels, I'd be a lot more confident in him.

But my point was that Lannan relies on defense just about as much as any pitcher out there and he did ok last year with the Nats defense behind him - so I'd see no reason why Buerhle wouldn't equal or better his performance with the White Sox.

Tyler Durden · « **Reply #889 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:05:01 am »

Quote from: Lintyfresh85 on October 25, 2011, 10:14:29 am

I'll end this argument before it begins.

I do not trust pitchers that rely on their defense for success nearly as much as I do pitchers that can strike out hitters.

My view point isn't going to change on that. Any posts brought up to refute my opinion are going to go unanswered by me... So if you want to tell me why I'm wrong in thinking that way, go ahead, but I'm not going to respond.

I think its clear what I value in a pitcher is a bit different than most.

What about Edwin Jackson? I know you've posted that you don't like him. He strikes out plenty of guys.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #890 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:07:40 am »

As SSB says, "Walks kill."

Lintyfresh85 · « **Reply #891 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:08:53 am »

Quote from: Tyler Durden on October 25, 2011, 11:05:01 am

What about Edwin Jackson? I know you've posted that you don't like him. He strikes out plenty of guys.

He also walks a crap ton of hitters.

And I think you're confusing throws hard with strikes out a lot of hitters, Jackson only struck out 6.67 K/9 this year, which is below league average.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #892 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:15:37 am »

Quote from: Lintyfresh85 on October 25, 2011, 11:08:53 am

He also walks a crap ton of hitters.

And I think you're confusing throws hard with strikes out a lot of hitters, Jackson only struck out 6.67 K/9 this year, which is below league average.

If you only want low BB/9 high K/9 pitchers, you're only really looking at aces (since that that skill set basically describes an ace). I'd be fine with a consistent guy like Oswalt or Buerhle to slot in as a 3/4 with Lannan. Jackson would be fine too, but I'd rather not get locked in too long term with him and I think he may require more years given the dearth of FA pitchers this year.

Lintyfresh85 · « **Reply #893 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:23:26 am »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on October 25, 2011, 11:15:37 am

If you only want low BB/9 high K/9 pitchers, you're only really looking at aces (since that that skill set basically describes an ace). I'd be fine with a consistent guy like Oswalt.

I'd love to have Oswalt.

I'd love to have Buerhle, provided they give him Lannan's spot.

I can deal with the no strikeout guys as long as it doesn't permeate the rotation for the 3-4-5 spots.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #894 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:30:07 am »

I wouldn't mind a rotation of

Strasburg
Zimmermann
Buerhle
Lannan
Wang/Milone/Peacock/Detwiler...

Oswalt would look better, but I'd be fine going into a season with that

zimm_da_kid · « **Reply #895 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:47:00 am »

Quote from: Lintyfresh85 on October 25, 2011, 09:09:34 am

The last thing the Nationals need is another soft toss lefthander who can't strikeout a hitter to save his life.

Thank you. Buerhle is Lannan except older.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #896 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:50:01 am »

Quote from: zimm_da_kid on October 25, 2011, 11:47:00 am

Thank you. Buerhle is Lannan except older.

they also have sub 4 eras- I'd rather that than a flame thrower who can't find the plate. A rotation of 5 8 k/9, 1 bb/9 pitchers would be great, but it doesn't exist

Evolution33 · « **Reply #897 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:58:54 am »

Buehrle has a career ERA+ of 120 and Lannan 103. They are about as far from the same thing as two things that aren't the same at all. The only thing they have in common is they are left handed and strike out lots of guys.

Squab · « **Reply #898 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:02:46 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on October 25, 2011, 11:30:07 am

I wouldn't mind a rotation of

Strasburg
Zimmermann
Buerhle
Lannan
Wang/Milone/Peacock/Detwiler...

Oswalt would look better, but I'd be fine going into a season with that

I think if we're looking for another lefty it ought to be Detwiler or Milone, or both. I feel like together they could do the same as Buerhle. Oswalt would look much better in there.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #899 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:03:56 pm »

they look pretty similar to me

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=7080&playerid2=225&playerid3=&position=P&page=0&type=full

Quote from: Evolution33 on October 25, 2011, 11:58:54 am

Buehrle has a career ERA+ of 120 and Lannan 103. They are about as far from the same thing as two things that aren't the same at all. The only thing they have in common is they are left handed and strike out lots of guys.