Japan Earthquake...

[PANatsFan]

Is Cupertino ok?

Apple has a really nice cafeteria.

[imref]

Actually even that is a very extreme and unlikely case given extremely advanced designs major Nuclear nations like Japan and France use.

i just heard a nuclear scientist interviewed on the radio, he said that the 1000x normal radiation sound scary, but isn't dangerous.  People will overreact to the threat.  He said this is much more like Three Mile Island than Chernobyl.  Hopefully he's right.

[imref]

So, uh, should I cancel I my fishing trip to Jackson Hole?

Only if the Yellowstone Caldera appears ready to blow (Have a nice time, we took the family to Jackson hole/Yellowstone last summer and had a blast - we didn't fish but we hiked a few trails in the Tetons and did the touristy things in Yellowstone.

[cmdterps44]

Yes yes, we all know about the supervolcano omgwtfbbqgrass history channel special of the week that will probably not happen in our lifetimes or the lifetimes of our 10x great grandchildren.  Your whole post just sounded ridiculous and esp with the chernobyl stuff right after Coladar and I *just* refuted such comparisons.  Guess it's my fault for picking the wrong thread for a joke.

I don't think everyone knows about it but we don't have a disaster thread do we. As for Chernobyl, no it wont happen. That whole thing was just ridiculous. We've obviously learned from that. Still, radiation is radiation so hopefully nothing goes wrong.


As for the volcano, I didn't know if you were referring to that. I don't know if everyone knows but while we are on the subject of disasters of nature, I thought I should post that. If you look at the times it's been set off, it would be around every 100,000-300,000 years. That's a long ass time. It's been over 100,000 years so it could happen between now and 500,000 years from now. It's still interesting to see though. Something like that being able to screw everything up. Sheesh.

[PANatsFan]

i just heard a nuclear scientist interviewed on the radio, he said that the 1000x normal radiation sound scary, but isn't dangerous.  People will overreact to the threat.  He said this is much more like Three Mile Island than Chernobyl.  Hopefully he's right.

Has anyone found a more technical link than this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-us-analysis-idUSTRE72B04C20110312?pageNumber=2

[EdStroud]

All the horrible things going on in Japan and than I have to read about the stupid American-

CRESCENT CITY, Calif. — Tsunami waves spawned by a devastating earthquake in Japan battered Hawaii and the U.S. western coast Friday, flooding businesses, smashing dozens of boats at harbors and sweeping a man to his death.

Sirens sounded for hours before dawn along the West Coast and roadways and beaches were mostly empty as the tsunami struck. By midmorning, waves were crashing against the 30-foot bluffs in Crescent City, Calif.

A 25-year-old man was swept into the Pacific Ocean near the Klamath River in Del Norte County in Northern California. The man and two friends reportedly traveled to the shoreline to take photos of the incoming tsunami waves, Lt. Todd Vorenkamp said. His friends made it back to shore safely.

[The Chief]

Has anyone found a more technhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-us-analysis-idUSTRE72B04C20110312?pageNumber=2ical link than this?

Stream of consciousness?

[cmdterps44]

Yeah. Of course California was going to act like it was some major thing.

[The Chief]

All the horrible things going on in Japan and than I have to read about the stupid American-

Darwin is alive and well.

[eckseid]

All the horrible things going on in Japan and than I have to read about the stupid American-

CRESCENT CITY, Calif. — Tsunami waves spawned by a devastating earthquake in Japan battered Hawaii and the U.S. western coast Friday, flooding businesses, smashing dozens of boats at harbors and sweeping a man to his death.

Sirens sounded for hours before dawn along the West Coast and roadways and beaches were mostly empty as the tsunami struck. By midmorning, waves were crashing against the 30-foot bluffs in Crescent City, Calif.

A 25-year-old man was swept into the Pacific Ocean near the Klamath River in Del Norte County in Northern California. The man and two friends reportedly traveled to the shoreline to take photos of the incoming tsunami waves, Lt. Todd Vorenkamp said. His friends made it back to shore safely.

Natural selection. Don't feel sorry for the moron.

[imref]

just saw this on CNN.com:

[7:45 p.m. ET, 9:45 a.m. Tokyo] Potentially dangerous problems cooling radioactive material appear to have cropped up at another of the Tokyo Electric Power Company's nuclear plants. Kyodo reported Saturday the power company alerted authorities that the cooling system at three of the four units of its Fukushima Daini plant – which is different from the Fukushima Daiichi reactors, nearby in northeastern Japan in the Fukushima prefecture – has failed.

The news agency also reported Saturday that Japan's nuclear safety agency ordered the power company to release a valve in the Fukushima Daiichi plant's "No. 1" reactor, in order to release growing pressure. This comes amid Kyodo's reports, citing the same Japanese agency, that radiation levels were 1,000 times above normal in the the control room of that facility's "No. 1" reactor.

[PANatsFan]

Levels in the control room are not levels in your living room. I get tired of the nuclear power boogeymen.

[imref]

maybe the biggest impact is on electricity supply?  They've got 8 million people without power right now, I wonder if they've got enough capacity at remaining plants to restore power without the two that are off-line?

update: 18% of the country's electrical generating capacity is off-line.

[PANatsFan]

maybe the biggest impact is on electricity supply?  They've got 8 million people without power right now, I wonder if they've got enough capacity at remaining plants to restore power without the two that are off-line?

Well of course it's a serious situation, but people can be so ignorant about "radiation." Irradiated foods are a great idea but the name scared people away.

[Coladar]

maybe the biggest impact is on electricity supply?  They've got 8 million people without power right now, I wonder if they've got enough capacity at remaining plants to restore power without the two that are off-line?

update: 18% of the country's electrical generating capacity is off-line.

It's... Not funny, something this tragic never could be, but ironic. I've been looking at getting a generator since the snowstorms last year. Finally bit the bullet in December and ordered one through the natural gas company. 20K Watts. Took three months between estimates and delays, but it's been scheduled to be delivered today for three weeks. Of all days to get a generator, this one seemed particularly apt. You hope, and chances are something never happens, but when something like this does, holy crap are you glad to have one.

[The Chief]

Levels in the control room are not levels in your living room. I get tired of the nuclear power boogeymen.

Finally something PA and I can agree on whole-heartedly

[imref]

this seems to be a decent analysis:

http://theenergycollective.com/nathantemple/53384/how-shutdown-and-core-cooling-japanese-reactors-likely-functions

Unfortunately my only experience with nuclear power is playing Scram on my old Atari 800.

Earthquake hits, high vibration on the main turbine automatically trips the turbine by rapidly closing stop valves. Reactor automatically shuts down (scrams) all rods go in. Earthquake disrupts off site power to the plant and back up diesel generators should have started, maybe they did not. Main sources of water to the reactor are not available. If there is no pipe break off of the reactor, the pressure will slowly increase. After about an hour, a relief valve(1 of about 10) will open at about 1100 psig and drop pressure to about 1080. The steam is sent to a pool of water called a suppression pool in the containment that condenses the steam. This valve will cycle open and close every 5-10 minutes. Operators would use a small steam driven turbine (RCIC) to supply water at high pressure to the reactor under these circumstances for several hours. You can sit like this a long time, hot and at 1000 psig it’s no big deal as long as water covers the fuel in the reactor pressure vessel. If that turbine is not available, there is a larger steam driven turbine (HPCI) that supplies more water meant to provide make up if there was a pipe break.

If neither of these systems is available, the relief valve will continue to cycle and reactor water level will slowly drop. At some point before the water level lowers to the point of uncovering the fuel, all the relief valves would be open (ADS) and pressure would be reduced to below 300 psig to allow the low pressure but high flow systems (CS & LPCI) to restore water level and cooling. These pumps however, need electricity, like from the diesel generators, to run. If things get this far but there is no injection, in US plants there are things like diesel fire pumps that can be tied in to provide alternate sources of water. I’m not sure if they are set up to do this in Japan. Without cooling, eventually the fuel temperature will exceed 2200 deg F and the clad will melt. Fission products that are highly radioactive will get dispersed into the reactor vessel. If there is a pipe break or relief valve open, those fission fragments get dispersed through containment.

[Coladar]

It sounds like it's starting. Reports of explosions at one of the plants, although they can't confirm it's related to the plant going. White smoke/radioactive gas? was seen leaving the plant afterwards. But, uhh, yeah, my guess is it is. You don't have explosions at nuclear plants a day after the quake and not have it related to the cooling failure/pressure buildup. 

[imref]

video of plant exploding:



nobody seems to know what's going on now, there are conflicting reports of a meltdown and that everything is under control.

[imref]

more on the current situation and possibility of fallout reaching the western US:

http://newamericamedia.org/2011/03/japan-tsunami-update-nuclear-power-plant-in-meltdown.php

[The Chief]

more on the current situation and possibility of fallout reaching the western US:

http://newamericamedia.org/2011/03/japan-tsunami-update-nuclear-power-plant-in-meltdown.php

I think I'm going to wait for more sources and/or confirmed reports before I go taking the word of what sounds like a panic-mongering article.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i0oTxE1ApG7ssJQJNIvRheKeOJDw?docId=CNG.282ada13094582f9a1838cc1441d70b5.701

WASHINGTON — The US embassy in Tokyo alerted US citizens in Japan Saturday of an evacuation order around a stricken nuclear power plant, the State Department said.

The embassy's message warned Americans living or traveling to Fukushima Prefecture that Japan's Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency "has recommended that people who live within 20 kilometers (12 miles) of the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant in Okumacho evacuate the area immediately."

The message urged Americans to try to monitor the embassy's website, and encouraged them to report their location and condition by email to JapanEmergencyUSC@state.gov'mailto:JapanEmergencyUSC@state.gov.

Smoke was seen billowing from the Fukushima No. 1 atomic plant about 250 kilometers (160 miles) northeast of Tokyo after an explosion at the site.

Kyodo News agency said radioactive caesium had been detected near the ageing facility, citing the nuclear safety agency.

Prime Minister Naoto Kan's top spokesman, Yukio Edano, said however that the Fukushima plant's operator had reported the reactor container was not damaged and that radiation levels near it had fallen after the blast.

[tomterp]

So, uh, should I cancel I my fishing trip to Jackson Hole?

I would never cancel a fishing trip for something so trivial as a volcano.

[cmdterps44]

I really hate people.

There's a link I found of compiled facebook statuses saying "---- Japan, remember Pearl Harbor" or "Karma's a nag"... People man... people.

[MarquisDeSade]

I would never cancel a fishing trip for something so trivial as a volcano.

Hey, I didn't let a heart attack or court dates stop me in the past.  

[imref]

Japanese nuclear official tells CNN a meltdown "may be underway" but Japanese ambassador denies it. Cooling problems with another reactor at the same site. So sad.