ESPN: The confusing plan of the Nationals

[Lintyfresh85]

Alright... lets be fair, then... what does a 2012 Nationals lineup look like?

C - Ramos/Norris/Flores ?
1B - ?
2B - Espinosa/Lombardozzi
3B - Zimmerman
SS - Desmond/Espinosa
LF - Bernadina/Morse/Werth
CF - Morgan/Brown/Werth
RF - Werth/Harper/?

To me... it really doesn't look much different than 2011... and it doesn't look that good.

Unless the Nats plan a spending spree next offseason, or work quite a few trades... I'm not seeing an offense that will be ready for prime time in 2012.

[Evolution33]

Alright... lets be fair, then... what does a 2012 Nationals lineup look like?

C - Ramos/Norris/Flores ?
1B - ?
2B - Espinosa/Lombardozzi
3B - Zimmerman
SS - Desmond/Espinosa
LF - Bernadina/Morse/Werth
CF - Morgan/Brown/Werth
RF - Werth/Harper/?

To me... it really doesn't look much different than 2011... and it doesn't look that good.

Unless the Nats plan a spending spree next offseason, or work quite a few trades... I'm not seeing an offense that will be ready for prime time in 2012.

But you are also seeing only what you want to.

[DPMOmaha]

Unless the Nats plan a spending spree next offseason, or work quite a few trades... I'm not seeing an offense that will be ready for prime time in 2012.

If 2012 is in fact the goal, I expect more significant moves.

[Lintyfresh85]

But you are also seeing only what you want to.

Well, then, tell me what you see.

[Natskins]

Alright... lets be fair, then... what does a 2012 Nationals lineup look like?

C - Ramos/Norris/Flores ?
1B - ?
2B - Espinosa/Lombardozzi
3B - Zimmerman
SS - Desmond/Espinosa
LF - Bernadina/Morse/Werth
CF - Morgan/Brown/Werth
RF - Werth/Harper/?

To me... it really doesn't look much different than 2011... and it doesn't look that good.

Unless the Nats plan a spending spree next offseason, or work quite a few trades... I'm not seeing an offense that will be ready for prime time in 2012.

I have a hunch that '12 is the year the Nats open the pocketbook wide. You're looking at the return of Strasburg for one thing. The possible arrival of Harper too. Throw in a top-flight acquisition or two, and I think you're knocking on the door of something good.

I believe this is the pitch they sold Werth on. He seemed convinced that the Nats' plan is solid, and the reports are that he pressed the organization on their plan, because he wasn't interested in losing.

Of course this is speculation, but I sense this is roughly how they have this thing mapped out.

Your outline assumes that the Nats won't make any other moves, and you also don't consider Strasburg. No one could have predicted we would have signed Werth, so who knows what they might do next year and beyond?

[hammondsnats]

eh, I think it was a poorly written article.  I agree on the parts it was down right freakIN stupid to rid ourselves of Willingham and Dunn, because if you look at the potential 2-7, we would've been stacked (Desmond, Zimmerman, Dunn, Werth, Willingham, Espinosa ... hell throw in Morse @ RF wow). 

I understand how people are confused as to which direction they are heading, but the off-season is not over.  With that said, I have my doubts.  Let's hope we make moves.

[hammondsnats]

I have a hunch that '12 is the year the Nats open the pocketbook wide. You're looking at the return of Strasburg for one thing. The possible arrival of Harper too. Throw in a top-flight acquisition or two, and I think you're knocking on the door of something good.

no offense, but people have been saying that for years (regarding when they will start spending).  that's all i'll say.

i'm too tired to bring up LAC and have been good in recent days  

[Tyler Durden]

This article is stupid.  Like, stoopid stupid.

There is an entire world of middle ground between tearing it down and building it up.  The Nats' goal should not be to suck for 10 years until they acquire enough prospects to maybe contend in 12 years.

The market here supports bigger spending and the team has signalled, hell it has outright explicitly stated, that it is going to spend more.

They tried to get Cliff Lee, and they failed.  That doesn't mean they should not have tried.  That is a loser's mentality.  A perennial loser. 

Tampa sucked for years before they got good.  They eventually did get good, but had to sell everyone off because they were not able to build a fanbase.  The Royals may get good, and they have a more established fanbase.  But there's not guarantee that all those years of losing will pay off.

[Kevrock]

no offense, but people have been saying that for years (regarding when they will start spending).  that's all i'll say.

i'm too tired to bring up LAC and have been good in recent days  

We didn't have Strasburg or Harper for years. In fact, we've been relatively devoid of talent in both the majors and minors until now.

[Natskins]

no offense, but people have been saying that for years (regarding when they will start spending).  that's all i'll say.

I know, and that's a fair question/criticism. But in reality, with the younger players progressing and with Strasburg returning and Harper entering the picture, it wouldn't take a Yankees-style spending spree for this team to turn the corner. I'm talking about maybe one more Werth-like deal and this team could get pretty good in a hurry.

[hammondsnats]

They tried to get Cliff Lee, and they failed.  That doesn't mean they should not have tried.  That is a loser's mentality.  A perennial loser. 

Not this again ... it seems like they are "always trying" and rarely end up getting the results.  That's the point.

[Lintyfresh85]

Tampa sucked for years before they got good. 

Tampa only got good when all their prospects developed.

They didn't sign massive contracts, ahead of time. The only guy in their starting lineup that wasn't acquired through trade of FA, was Pena... and he was signed on a minor league deal because he fell off the face of the earth the year prior.

In fact, the last time they tried to spend first... they ended up with Greg Vaughn, Jose Canseco and an aging Vinny Castilla... and they sucked, bad.

[Tyler Durden]

They succeeded with Werth.  They failed a bunch of times before that. 

I couldn't be a fan of a team that just conceded the best players to the Yankees and Red Sox. 

It takes time and money to build a winner.  Hell the Royals have sucked for 20 years.  That's what this guy is advocating?  Get the f out of here.

[Evolution33]

Well, then, tell me what you see.

I am not a soothsayer, a witch doctor, or Miss Cleo. I won't even begin to make predictions on the 2012 team until the 2011 team has taken the field. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered in 2011 before 2012 rolls around. Espinosa could become a decent power threat as a second baseman while playing above average defense, Ian Desmond could improve his OBP and cut down on the errors, Wilson Ramos was the Twins number 2 prospect last season and could turn into a good offensive catcher, Marrero still managed an .800 OPS after an extremely weak start in AA last season and could show more improvement in 2011, Bryce Harper is going to get some time in spring training in CF and he might succeed there if not maybe Morgan actually rebounds to career norms after an unlucky bit of BABIP last season, also the entire pitching staff is missing from your projections. Pitching is the most important part of baseball. Zimmermann could look good in 2011 and Strasburg might come back healthy for 2012. Solis, Rosenbaum, Milone, Peacock, or Meyers could make strides in their games in 2011 and be ready to make an impact in 2012.

I just don't understand trying to predict 2012 before the MANY questions of 2011 have been answered. 

[Coladar]

CF unknowable
LF Inknowable
CF morse
RF bernadina/morse platoon hardcard backseat on the Shanahan party bussp during game times
First is a nightmare in FA.
Third Zimmerman
As for as espinosa
2nd or 2
First clueless
catcher Ramos and Zombie Flores. Pudge heeds to take a
5 Zimmermann

Nnot looking like a strong more a strong team makes.

[Tyler Durden]

Tampa only got good when all their prospects developed.

They didn't sign massive contracts, ahead of time. The only guy in their starting lineup that wasn't acquired through trade of FA, was Pena... and he was signed on a minor league deal because he fell off the face of the earth the year prior.

In fact, the last time they tried to spend first... they ended up with Greg Vaughn, Jose Canseco and an aging Vinny Castilla... and they sucked, bad.

As good as they are now, they will lose several of their good players because they have not developed a fan base.  Sure, they may hang on to Longoria and Price, but they will have to sell off several others.  That's not the model Washington should be following.

[Evolution33]

Not this again ... it seems like they are "always trying" and rarely end up getting the results.  That's the point.

Players can only sign with one team. Failure is no reason to stop trying.

[hammondsnats]

nobody wants to be calling us tampa, because that means we have to be some new level of awfully SUCKITUDE of 10 years.  I don't want that.  There's no guarantee we even become a monster when the "prospects arrive".

[hammondsnats]

Players can only sign with one team. Failure is no reason to stop trying.

When did I say stop "trying".  All I said is we need "results".

[houston-nat]

nobody wants to be calling us tampa, because that means we have to be some new level of awfully SUCKITUDE of 10 years.  I don't want that.  There's no guarantee we even become a monster when the "prospects arrive".

We already had that level of suckitude from 2006-2009. The goal is for us to be the 2008 Rays, in 2012. There may be no guarantee that we become a monster, but I mean... Strasburg, Harper, Zimmerman, Werth, Norris, the bullpen? That's a good proto-monster.

[hammondsnats]

We already had that level of suckitude from 2006-2009. The goal is for us to be the 2008 Rays, in 2012.

yeah 06-09 and last year wasn't great.  But if we're going to say we're the next Rays, and build off that model, we still have what 3 more years of sucking?!?! 

and then we'll lose all of our studs to FA

[houston-nat]

yeah 06-09 and last year wasn't great.  But if we're going to say we're the next Rays, we still have what 3 more years of sucking?!?!

2011 should do it just fine This year we get picks 6 and 23, draw the 10-12ish pick for 2012, and get Strasback and so 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 = 6 years of suckitude should really be plenty.

[Lintyfresh85]

As good as they are now, they will lose several of their good players because they have not developed a fan base.  Sure, they may hang on to Longoria and Price, but they will have to sell off several others.  That's not the model Washington should be following.

Nats should follow the model... except, in the end, re-sign the top talent before it can hit FA.

[Evolution33]

When did I say stop "trying".  All I said is we need "results".

It is very rare that one team signs more than one of the top free agents.

[hammondsnats]

It is very rare that one team signs more than one of the top free agents.

it's happened before.  again i think the article isn't very good.  i'll leave it at that.