Knuckleballs

[CatsEye]

     I did not realize that throwing knuckleballs was so rare these days, until we played and Tim Wakefield pitched. Dibble stated that some catchers don't even want to catch for a pitcher that throws knuckleballs, that it takes the catcher a whole day to recover. Why has the knuckleball become so rare adn so few pitchers can throw it? Since I find it amazing that there are so few pitchers these days that have mastered the knuckleball,  and it has become so rare -I am interested in your thoughts on this subject?
                                                                                                                    

[NatsDad14]

It's a gimmick. Not only that, it is hard to learn.

What I want to know is why very few kids/players try to emulate the known to be successful style of Livan Hernandez. It doesn't discriminate against fat people and people who can't throw hard.

[blue911]

I think Victor Martinez uses his firstbaseman's glove to catch Wakefield. Trying to catch a knuckleball is like trying to put your finger on a bead of mercury.

[EdStroud]

I think Victor Martinez uses his firstbaseman's glove to catch Wakefield. Trying to catch a knuckleball is like trying to put your finger on a bead of mercury.

He did use his firstbase mitt the first time he caught Wakefield last year.  Since that I heard (MLB-TV) that a manufacturer made a new combo of the two gloves for a catcher.  I believe they were speaking about Martinez.

[tomterp]

Some thoughts:

There are only two in the majors this year - the Dodgers' Haeger (who the Nats beat this season) and Wakefield.

There are some major disadvantages:

- lots of passed balls, wild pitches, hit batsmen.  Catchers hate catching knucklers.
- slow to the plate means easier to steal against.

Advantages
- hitters don't see very many of them these days, can't really prepare properly.  Tough to hit when moving well.
- easy on the arm of the pitcher.

Nats once had 4 knuckleballers in the rotation,  WWII era (4-man rotation).

[blue911]

He did use his firstbase mitt the first time he caught Wakefield last year.  Since that I heard (MLB-TV) that a manufacturer made a new combo of the two gloves for a catcher.

Kinda like a Spork? 

[EdStroud]

Kinda like a Spork? 

I would like to see the glove and try using it sometime.

[EdStroud]

Like a woman there is not only one way to handle them.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3070200873722568400#

[tomterp]

If ever a woman was to play in the majors, it would probably be as a knuckleballer.



TOKYO — Female pitcher Eri Yoshida says she hopes to follow in the footsteps of her hero Tim Wakefield of the Boston Red Sox when she heads to the minor leagues next month.

http://blog.taragana.com/sports/2010/04/13/japanese-female-knuckleballer-eri-yoshida-sets-sights-on-becoming-next-tim-wakefield-93414/

[EdStroud]

EdStroud trivia;  Who was credited with throwing the first Knuckleball in the Bigs?

[CJames0569]

EdStroud trivia;  Who was credited with throwing the first Knuckleball in the Bigs?

Phil Wood, of course.

[blue911]

EdStroud trivia;  Who was credited with throwing the first Knuckleball in the Bigs?

Let's go with Eddie Cicotte.

[EdStroud]

EdStroud trivia;  Who was credited with throwing the first Knuckleball in the Bigs?

Hint his character was used in two major motion pictures

[Minty Fresh]

I think Victor Martinez uses his firstbaseman's glove to catch Wakefield.

I thought there was some obscure rule that stated you can't have more than 1 1B mitt on the field at a time?

Trying to catch a knuckleball is like trying to put your finger on a bead of mercury.

I actually like the challenge and I find it keeps me alert and focused.

We have guys on our league that toy around with knuckleballs and I have one guy on my team this year who throws it with about 70% effectiveness (meaning 70% of the time he manages to throw it with no spin whatsoever); the problem is the other 30% end up a XBH's.

To answer Catseye's question directly, I'm not sure that it's a lost art of sorts or any more rare than it was at any point in history.  How many true knuckleballers were ever playing simultaneously anyway?  I do like the pitch and I do wish that more people used it.  It's very effective with pitchers who can throw 85+ and mix in an overhand curve.

[EdStroud]

Let's go with Eddie Cicotte.

Ding-Ding  Field of Dreams and Eight Men Out

He wasn't in pictures for his looks

[bklynnats]

If ever a woman was to play in the majors, it would probably be as a knuckleballer.

"I bugged him (Joe Niekro) to teach me because I never could hit that knuckleball when he would throw it to me in batting practice. He always said it was a secret, but he finally taught me, and we worked on it a lot,'' Chelsea told FanHouse last week after a game. "I love throwing it. My catcher says it's so nasty.''

And the batters can't touch it. Although there are many young girls peppered across America now playing Little League Baseball with the boys, there are only a few who can dominate as Chelsea does.

She has thrown two perfect games within the past year, including one in an All-Star Game. She is unbeaten this season in nine starts, throwing 54 innings and striking out 103 batters while allowing only four runs. She also is hitting .569, playing third base when she doesn't pitch.

 "When she first came to me for instruction, I was thinking 'OK, here is a girl I can help,' '' said Keith Maxwell, a hitting instructor who played 12 years of professional baseball, including five with the Pittsburgh Pirates organization. "But after two weeks with her, I was like 'wow.' She has an incredible pop in her bat. She isn't just a pitcher. I thought, 'This is probably going to be the first girl to play Major League Baseball.' And I don't say that lightly.''

She already is being recruited to play for the Sparks, a girls baseball team based in the Northeast that tours nationally playing against the best boys teams in the country.

Chelsea, average size for a 12-year-old girl, is unusually athletic with a powerful arm and a fastball that comes close to 70 mph. Yet it's Niekro's knuckleball, and the passion he sparked, that makes her so special.

Reminded me of this article in FanHouse from a few days ago.

[EdStroud]

I thought there was some obscure rule that stated you can't have more than 1 1B mitt on the field at a time?

I actually like the challenge and I find it keeps me alert and focused.

We have guys on our league that toy around with knuckleballs and I have one guy on my team this year who throws it with about 70% effectiveness (meaning 70% of the time he manages to throw it with no spin whatsoever); the problem is the other 30% end up a XBH's.

To answer Catseye's question directly, I'm not sure that it's a lost art of sorts or any more rare than it was at any point in history.  How many true knuckleballers were ever playing simultaneously anyway?  I do like the pitch and I do wish that more people used it.  It's very effective with pitchers who can throw 85+ and mix in an overhand curve.

Interesting you said overhand curve because Hoyt Wilhelm used a slider instead stating, "If I could still throw a curve without pain I wouldn't need a knuckler".

[CJames0569]

"I bugged him (Joe Niekro) to teach me because I never could hit that knuckleball when he would throw it to me in batting practice. He always said it was a secret, but he finally taught me, and we worked on it a lot,'' Chelsea told FanHouse last week after a game. "I love throwing it. My catcher says it's so nasty.''

And the batters can't touch it. Although there are many young girls peppered across America now playing Little League Baseball with the boys, there are only a few who can dominate as Chelsea does.

She has thrown two perfect games within the past year, including one in an All-Star Game. She is unbeaten this season in nine starts, throwing 54 innings and striking out 103 batters while allowing only four runs. She also is hitting .569, playing third base when she doesn't pitch.

 "When she first came to me for instruction, I was thinking 'OK, here is a girl I can help,' '' said Keith Maxwell, a hitting instructor who played 12 years of professional baseball, including five with the Pittsburgh Pirates organization. "But after two weeks with her, I was like 'wow.' She has an incredible pop in her bat. She isn't just a pitcher. I thought, 'This is probably going to be the first girl to play Major League Baseball.' And I don't say that lightly.''

She already is being recruited to play for the Sparks, a girls baseball team based in the Northeast that tours nationally playing against the best boys teams in the country.

Chelsea, average size for a 12-year-old girl, is unusually athletic with a powerful arm and a fastball that comes close to 70 mph. Yet it's Niekro's knuckleball, and the passion he sparked, that makes her so special.

Reminded me of this article in FanHouse from a few days ago.

  Look at those dreads

[EdStroud]

I was doing some homework on the knuckleball subject.  Very few lefthanded knuckleballers the only one to have a little success was ex-Senator Mickey Haefner 78-91  3.50 ERA during the 40s.

[blue911]

I was doing some homework on the knuckleball subject.  Very few lefthanded knuckleballers the only one to have a little success was ex-Senator Mickey Haefner 78-91  3.50 ERA during the 40s.

Wilbur Wood

[Minty Fresh]

Interesting you said overhand curve because Hoyt Wilhelm used a slider instead stating, "If I could still throw a curve without pain I wouldn't need a knuckler".

I don't understand why anyone would throw a slider instead of an overhand curve.  It puts the same stress on your elbow but the pitch (IMO) works better against a fastball.

[Kevrock]

It's a gimmick. Not only that, it is hard to learn.

What I want to know is why very few kids/players try to emulate the known to be successful style of Livan Hernandez. It doesn't discriminate against fat people and people who can't throw hard.

Getting a fastball to move like Livan does is hard -- it was harder for me control movement on a fastball than to learn a knuckleball. Also, HS coaches tend to teach harder thrown curveballs in attempts to get sharper break... not the loopy curve that Livan throws.

There are plenty of finesse pitchers at lower levels, though. The majority of them just don't get drafted.

[EdStroud]

I don't understand why anyone would throw a slider instead of an overhand curve.  It puts the same stress on your elbow but the pitch (IMO) works better against a fastball.

Maybe the speed of the pitch?  A curve is slower and closer speed wise to the knuckler.

[NatsDad14]

I don't understand why anyone would throw a slider instead of an overhand curve.  It puts the same stress on your elbow but the pitch (IMO) works better against a fastball.

Sliders are easier to control than curveballs.

[EdStroud]

Wilbur Wood

I don't understand why he was not on the list of knuckleballers.  Mad at myself for not remembering Mr. Ed's friend Wilbah.