Plan "B"

[MrMadison]

And in some of our opinions, we feel Dunn is a good option (and a more realistic one).  Trust me most of us wanted Teixeira, but we didn't get him.  Not saying you have to go out and get the next guy, but Dunn is 29, he is a proven big bat and it's not like we're talking 5 year deal here. 

We agree to disagree. 

well-stated.

[Minty Fresh]

And in some of our opinions, we feel Dunn is a good option (and a more realistic one).  Trust me most of us wanted Teixeira, but we didn't get him.  Not saying you have to go out and get the next guy, but Dunn is 29, he is a proven big bat and it's not like we're talking 5 year deal here. 

We agree to disagree. 

I'm fine with that and had let it go.  But if my opinion is challenged with a "I don't wanna hear nagging out of you when we still suck next year..." I at least feel the need to respond.

We'll suck with or without Dunn. 

I'm encouraged by the blog you posted about a potential two-year contract.  That would be palatable.

I'm tired now and going to bed before I write something I regret.

[sportsfan882]

I'm fine with that and had let it go.  But if my opinion is challenged with a "I don't wanna hear nagging out of you when we still suck next year..." I at least feel the need to respond.

We'll suck with or without Dunn. 

I'm encouraged by the blog you posted about a potential two-year contract.  That would be palatable.

I'm tired now and going to bed before I write something I regret.

QFT. I don't want Dunn in any form but a 2-year deal wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[xposbrad]

QFT. I don't want Dunn in any form but a 2-year deal wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I don't think anyone would argue if we signed dunn to a short term, low contract. I think the people who don't want Dunn realize we shouldn't overpay a guy like Dunn. If we overpay, it should be for a guy like Holliday or a Brandon Webb. Let's offer Dunn an incentive based contract, so it works out for everyone. I'd even do 3 years, but nothing more than 3/30, and throw in some bonuses for certain marks and that should be fine.

[PANatsFan]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not fluent in cryptology. You make blue911 seem like a novice in making posts where no one has any idea what you are trying to say.

Blue is like the funniest person here - if you don't get it, that's your problem. He also teaches me like 3 historical facts a day. I totally impressed my father in law by telling him Sherman was the first president of LSU.

[PANatsFan]

So then your saying if we sign Adam Dunn we'll be so much less pathetic?  Dunn maybe gets us 0 more wins. 

WARP, meet Minty. Minty, meet WARP. Your statement is crap. You are a smart guy. I don't get it.

[PANatsFan]

we should look at Koshansky again.

You and I are in the Koshanksy fan club

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I'm not convinced that Koshansky is more than an AAAA player.  I'd want to see him play.

WARP, meet Minty. Minty, meet WARP. Your statement is crap. You are a smart guy. I don't get it.

WARP is a phony invention from B-Pro meant to give a false representation of the value of guys like Dunn.
/traditionalist/

[houston-nat]

Blue is like the funniest person here - if you don't get it, that's your problem. He also teaches me like 3 historical facts a day. I totally impressed my father in law by telling him Sherman was the first president of LSU.

Yep. blue911 is hilarious, but sportsfan just doesn't get the jokes.

[sportsfan882]

Yep. blue911 is hilarious, but sportsfan just doesn't get the jokes.

Oh, I get the jokes but usually they either make no sense or are not funny. I don't know why some people on here are afraid to say exactly what they mean. Why dance around words spewing some senseless sewage?

[PANatsFan]

Oh, I get the jokes but usually they either make no sense or are not funny. I don't know why some people on here are afraid to say exactly what they mean. Why dance around words spewing some senseless sewage?

*slow head shake*

In fact, that should be the sportsfan smiley.

[cmdterps44]

Damn I missed alot tonight, been hooked on that Left 4 Dead game. Its the crap.

Anyway, about the topic thus far, i'm with MrMad here, anyway we can upgrade at first, Im fine with it, but the only realistic option available is Dunn.

ronnynats question about if we KNEW NJ was healthy; yes we should keep him and not look for anyone.

sportsfans reasons for why we shouldnt sign Dunn to a 2-3 year deal are kinda oblivious and weak, no offense, just not really solid. Look, if you believe what reds fans say on a forum, thats just believing an angry post and taking it as word.

If someone came from a website, looking at what YOU think about a Milledge on a day he went 0-4 with 4ks, Youd be calling him the worst player ever and go on about it. When in fact hes having a great day, that guy will quote you for ever saying "Nats fans hate milledge, lets stay away from him!"

Its not really a good example there but its basically the same thing, taking word from a reds forum poster isnt really proof. I find Dunn to be the best available option we have and a 2-3 year deal wont hurt us. We'll have a viable first baseman, a chance to "lessen the pressure" on Rhinehart and Marerro and hold off so we dont rush them.

Why/How would signing Dunn lessen our chances of going after Holliday/Bay/Any other FA next season? Whos to say they want to come here by sportsfans logic, we cant get crap to come here unless we get better. We need our youngsters to step up and plus, not rely on an injured 1b this year.

Just my two cents on this so far.

[cmdterps44]

Oh, and off the topic of the night, we're attending a Cordero Audition!?

according to Chico that is.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2009/01/right_off_the_stove.html?wprss=nationalsjournal

The Nats are among the teams that have expressed some interest in Cordero, a source said, and one member of the team's front office plans to watch the right-hander throw some time later this month. Among the other teams that so far have expressed interest, according to reports: The D'backs, Angels, Mets, Rangers and Tigers.

Reynolds said that Cordero will be throwing off a mound in a "couple of weeks," and by March, "he'll be throwing competitively against hitters."

"As Chad told me yesterday," Reynolds said, "his arm is outstanding."

Eh? What happened to this not throwing till June? Maybe he rushed. Dunno. Would you take him back if he was back to Chiefs old self? I wouldn't mind taking a way some of the stuff we have in the bullpen: Rivera/Hanrahan gap.

[Evolution33]

I'm not convinced that Koshansky is more than an AAAA player.  I'd want to see him play.WARP is a phony invention from B-Pro meant to give a false representation of the value of guys like Dunn.
/traditionalist/

WARP and VORP like all other stats have limits. They do good as a general ranking system to give someone an idea of a players ability but more traditional stats still need to be looked at to get the full picture. And honestly if someone doesn't understand the value of Dunn by just looking at slugging and obp then nothing will change their mind. VORP and WARP get on my nerves because their very nature is intangible. If VORP were changed to something like value over Jeff Conine or value over Kory Casto then it would be tangible what exactly defines a replacement player. Dunn won't help this team to win enough to be any higher than a 4th place team, but he will make the season more interesting to watch.

[DCFan]

All this angst over improving a team that's the worst in baseball.  Good grief. 

[HalfSmokes]

WARP and VORP like all other stats have limits. They do good as a general ranking system to give someone an idea of a players ability but more traditional stats still need to be looked at to get the full picture. And honestly if someone doesn't understand the value of Dunn by just looking at slugging and obp then nothing will change their mind. VORP and WARP get on my nerves because their very nature is intangible. If VORP were changed to something like value over Jeff Conine or value over Kory Casto then it would be tangible what exactly defines a replacement player. Dunn won't help this team to win enough to be any higher than a 4th place team, but he will make the season more interesting to watch.

I think that Casto does define a replacement player (although he does have a negative VORP).

[Minty Fresh]

WARP and VORP like all other stats have limits. They do good as a general ranking system to give someone an idea of a players ability but more traditional stats still need to be looked at to get the full picture. And honestly if someone doesn't understand the value of Dunn by just looking at slugging and obp then nothing will change their mind. VORP and WARP get on my nerves because their very nature is intangible. If VORP were changed to something like value over Jeff Conine or value over Kory Casto then it would be tangible what exactly defines a replacement player. Dunn won't help this team to win enough to be any higher than a 4th place team, but he will make the season more interesting to watch.

This is the crux of my argument.  I care about winning games.  Dunn will "improve" the offense and make them watchable. 

I could care less if this team hits a single homerun all season long.  If we WIN GAMES, I am happy.  I don't believe Dunn helps us win games - talk about WARP all you want.  Obviously, Dunn is better than Kory Casto, but he's not better than other options that could be available right now. 

One name that was mentioned this morning on XM-175 that could be intriguing and available is Eric Chavez.  Oakland might be looking to cut ties and Chavez may not have the arm left to play 3B.  Why not look at moving NJ to Oakland (who already asked to see NJ's medical records) and get Chavez back to play 1B? 

[DCFan]

Why not look at moving NJ to Oakland (who already asked to see NJ's medical records) and get Chavez back to play 1B? 

Too late, they're dotting the i's and crossing the t's on a contract with Giambi.

[HalfSmokes]

Great we trade one guy with potential who is too injured to play for another guy with potential who is too injured to ever play

[blue911]

Does anybody know what Dunn's contract demands are?

[MrMadison]

Obviously, Dunn is better than Kory Casto, but he's not better than other options that could be available right now. 
 

I disagree.

You are throwing random names out there for fantasy trades hoping that maybe someone will be stupid enough to trade us their best power hitter just because we want them to.  that's just not going to happen.  if that's your definition of "could be available", then I disagree with that.

Dunn *is* available.  and he's the best option that *is* (not "could be") available.

my opinion is that if we don't get Dunn, then we don't get anyone, because nobody else that *is* actually available(as opposed to us hoping and praying that they might be) is a better option. Maybe Abreu for 1 year, if he'll take that.

it seems the opinion here is a very desperate "anybody but Dunn" and I don't agree with that stance.

if there is a truly feasible option that we have a *realistic* chance of getting that isn't Dunn, then fine..do it.  But you haven't really got anything besides "I hope they'll trade *insert player* maybe" when it comes to other options here.

if Dunn is the best option that we can realistically get, then I say we get him, for no longer than 4 years. 2 is ideal, but I don't see exactly how giving him a 3 or 4 year deal will cripple this organization for life.  if not, then we just take our chances with what we have and hope for the best.

[Minty Fresh]

I disagree.

You are throwing random names out there for fantasy trades hoping that maybe someone will be stupid enough to trade us their best power hitter just because we want them to.  that's just not going to happen.  if that's your definition of "could be available", then I disagree with that.

Dunn *is* available.  and he's the best option that *is* (not "could be") available.

my opinion is that if we don't get Dunn, then we don't get anyone, because nobody else that *is* actually available(as opposed to us hoping and praying that they might be) is a better option.

Dunn is the only name you're HEARING about.  Did we hear anything about Willingham/Olsen before that went down?  How about Holliday to the A's?  Tex to the Yankees?

Bottom line is you're only basing your opinion off what the media is telling you - and that's all pure speculation.  For all we know, Dunn could go to the Indians, Abreu could go to the Pirates and the Marlins could up the payroll by 50 million.  Truth is, while I may not know what the GMs are thinking - NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.  Dunn is the OBVIOUS - but why settly just because he appears to be the "only viable option." 

Like you say, "ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THIS TEAM."  I agree.

[tomterp]

Let's offer Dunn an incentive based contract, so it works out for everyone.

Dunn isn't going to go for an incentive oriented contract, why should he?  You can't get a more steady, reliable production out of any free agent out there than Dunn.  4 consecutive years of 40 HR is as steady as it gets.

Dunn's position is, you know what you're getting, so pay for it. 

[DCFan]

You can't get a more steady, reliable production out of any free agent out there than Dunn.  4 consecutive years of 40 HR is as steady as it gets.

And a 5th year with 46 but who's counting? Certainly not those who think that we should only go after that one and only one free agent who is perfect and has no holes in his game and will vault us into the series by himself.

[DPMOmaha]

You could give him defensive incentives.