Is Thom Loverro leaving the DC Market?

[wpa2629]

IMO the Zuckerman piece carries a little more weight. He, at least, names former executive/manager types that have left the organization. But the reality is that all of these charges are the same ones brought up 4 or 5 months ago. There really isn't any "new" material. There is no reason for a season ticket holder NOT to be identified. What you think they won't let you renew because you're skeptical of their management style/ability?

Which former executives, the ones who were fired when the new owners came in ... ?

[aspenbubba]

There's nothing about what the Lerner's have done to make me think they aren't committed to winning -- and please - stop banging because we don't have a $100 million dollar payroll the Lerner's are cheap drum - the argument is tired and misplaced 

-- if they were bypassing picks because of sign ability issues, that's a problem, if there were not signing their picks above slot, that's a problem, if they were not expanding their scouting resources, that's a problem, if they're trading away their young core pieces, (Zimmerman, Lannan, Flores, etc., ) that's a problem, etc., ... all of the Nats affiliates in the minor leagues were hugely successful this year -- that bodes nothing but well for the future --

The Lerner's are by no means perfect and there are plenty of things they need to learn to do differently and/or better -- but I give no credibility to anonymous sources who clearly have an ax to grind - If Stan is so unhappy, why is he still here? Because he can't get another job somewhere else? Please - and why is Mike Rizzo still here if things are so terrible? I'm sick of the Lerner's are cheap talk -- and the same stupid old regurgitated articles about the same stupid things from the same stupid writers ...

If this team had stayed healthy all year and had played more to their capabilities --we wouldn't be bored to death over and over again by the same stupid crap.

My feelings exactly.There is not one person in the Lerner management team that I would consider an athlete or a former player or executive except for Katsen. He is making the baseball related decisions. I am a friggin DC taxpayer and I applaud the Lerners for withholding the rent. If the executive offices and players areas are not up to standards and Clark/ Smoot JV  isn't punching them out then the Lerners have every right to withhold rent. If the DC governmrent doesn't have retainage on the 611 mil stadium  (usually 10 %) and has released all monies owed to  the GC it is again bad management by DC and not the Lerners. For all you idiots out there who think otherwise quit your government jobs and get into the real world..

[blue911]

Which former executives, the ones who were fired when the new owners came in ... ?

This is from the Zuckerman piece.

In the past month, the Nationals have witnessed the exodus of Tom Ward, the team's vice president of marketing, and Mike Shapiro, the club's vice president of business affairs. While the precise reasons for their departures remain unknown, sources close to the team said they are a bellwether for a larger employee exodus.

[wpa2629]

This is from the Zuckerman piece.

Thanks

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I blame Bud Selig.  He wanted us to have these pathetic ass owners so baseball would fail in DC once and for all.

[OldChelsea]

[...]There is no reason for a season ticket holder NOT to be identified. What you think they won't let you renew because you're skeptical of their management style/ability?

If they actually did that, it would be the most ludicrous instance of cutting-off-one's-nose-to-spite-one's-face in history. With the way attendance stands to plummet next season (barring, of course, the team suddenly contending - but remember attendance fell 21% between Years 1 and 2 at RFK), I simply cannot believe the Lerners would be that short-sighted.

[MrMadison]

There's nothing about what the Lerner's have done to make me think they aren't committed to winning -- and please - stop banging because we don't have a $100 million dollar payroll the Lerner's are cheap drum - the argument is tired and misplaced 

-- if they were bypassing picks because of sign ability issues, that's a problem, if there were not signing their picks above slot, that's a problem, if they were not expanding their scouting resources, that's a problem, if they're trading away their young core pieces, (Zimmerman, Lannan, Flores, etc., ) that's a problem, etc., ... all of the Nats affiliates in the minor leagues were hugely successful this year -- that bodes nothing but well for the future --

The Lerner's are by no means perfect and there are plenty of things they need to learn to do differently and/or better -- but I give no credibility to anonymous sources who clearly have an ax to grind - If Stan is so unhappy, why is he still here? Because he can't get another job somewhere else? Please - and why is Mike Rizzo still here if things are so terrible? I'm sick of the Lerner's are cheap talk -- and the same stupid old regurgitated articles about the same stupid things from the same stupid writers ...

If this team had stayed healthy all year and had played more to their capabilities --we wouldn't be bored to death over and over again by the same stupid crap.

very little in Zuckerman's article had ANYTHING to do with a "100 million payroll".   it is mostly about how the Lerners run the day-to-day operations, and it seems that many employees or former employees were not happy about it at all.

[MrMadison]

This is from the Zuckerman piece.

tom ward was that guy that the Nats PA announcer from 2005 blasted after he was replaced.

[hammondsnats]

Yeah wpa, as I have said it's not so much anymore of us bashing the Crow failed signing or going out and getting a free agent bat because we know that's not going to happen.

it's the crap like being sticklers over office supplies and ground shipping, not paying rent, not paying former scouts, saying how all they have heard is great feedback, the astronomical prices for the rf seats ... i can go on and on and on and on and on ... but i want to work out before tonight's game. 

[Dave B]

IMO the Zuckerman piece carries a little more weight. He, at least, names former executive/manager types that have left the organization. But the reality is that all of these charges are the same ones brought up 4 or 5 months ago. There really isn't any "new" material. There is no reason for a season ticket holder NOT to be identified. What you think they won't let you renew because you're skeptical of their management style/ability?

the dude spends 30k on tickets, he could be a pretty prominent guy in DC who people know. he might just not want to have his name out there like that

[blue911]

the dude spends 30k on tickets, he could be a pretty prominent guy in DC who people know. he might just not want to have his name out there like that

Are you serious?

[Dave B]

at the risk of incurring the wrath of Dave B, I'm pretty sure that if Kasten had his way, the Almighty Bowden would not be the GM. Kasten would have gone out and gotten a guy of his own, rather than stick with MLB's pick.

freak it. i dont care anymore. although i would feel slightly bad for the guy because he didnt really have a chance and did do what we asked of him. regardless of douchegbaggery

[Dave B]

Are you serious?

yes?

[wpa2629]

My response was to the posts about the Lerner's having no commitment to winning - suffice to say, I couldn't disagree more -- I can't speak to their business practices -- I don't do business with the Lerners -- clearly their micromanagement style rubs those who are not accustomed to that the wrong way -- and it's not the typical "baseball way" -- they have adjustments to make no doubt -- but it's not like they've be doing this forever - and it's not like this has been going on for 12+ years like our friends up north -- The Lerner's didn't become highly successful by accident. Personally, I think it's simplistic to imagine that someone as successful and influential as the Lerner(s) would be one dimensional.

I've been managing departments for over 20 years -- if you lined up 100 of my ex employees -- 1/2 would probably tell you that I'm the biggest biatch ever and the other half would tell you that they'd walk through fire for me ... Strong personalities typically engender that type of diverse response ...

Regardless, I can't help but think if the team had played up to their capabilities and had a better year -- a lot of this clatter would be much more muted ...

[Dave B]

Of all the criticism directed at Leonsis from 2004-2007, as far as I know, no one ever accused him of using the team as a cash cow and a vehicle for screwing over D.C. taxpayers.  

Leonsis was still losing money even with the low payroll.  He tried to do something with Jagr. That failed.  He at least tried.  He did also punch a fan, but whatever.  He at least faced the wrath instead of sitting in a downtown office looking at a bank account grow.

[blue911]

yes?

Do you know anybody that can afford to drop 30K on season tickets? Because everybody I know that fits that profile wouldn't tell that they dropped that kind of coin. And they certainly wouldn't go nagging to Thom Loverro if they had a beef.

[Dave B]

Do you know anybody that can afford to drop 30K on season tickets? Because everybody I know that fits that profile wouldn't tell that they dropped that kind of coin. And they certainly wouldn't go nagging to Thom Loverro if they had a beef.

I dont know anybody that fits that profile. What if it is just some guy Loverro knows who told him? The guy didnt have to seek him out.

"Hey Pat Sajak, what do you think about the Nats?"

"I spend 30k on them (relevant because they are obviously good seats unless he buys a couple hundred crappy ones) and I cant give them away"

[aspenbubba]

it's the crap like being sticklers over office supplies and ground shipping, not paying rent, not paying former scouts, saying how all they have heard is great feedback, the astronomical prices for the rf seats ... i can go on and on and on and on and on ... but i want to work out before tonight's game. 

I can't believe that the office supplies and Fed ex expenses got into the article and then it becoming an issue of the Lerners management style. Have you ever run a business or were responsible for the bottom line of any type of organization? With employees like you who could care less about profit or cash flow and cavalierly spend the owners or stock holders money because it simply isn't yours are not valuable assets to the company. I found employees of mine sending stuff Fed Ex when the good old USPS could get it there the next day because it was local. I also found that a majority of items that were shipped overnight didn't have to be.The Lerners built an empire on spending wisely and having the foresight to know real estate market trends.That was what enabled them to pay 450 mil for the team that was overpriced to begin with.Good management is setting examples for the entire organization and it starts from the top. I don't think that Ted or Mark are checking the Fed EX log at the adm offices. And ,I don't think they even have offices there.

[blue911]

I dont know anybody that fits that profile. What if it is just some guy Loverro knows who told him? The guy didnt have to seek him out.

"Hey Pat Sajak, what do you think about the Nats?"

"I spend 30k on them (relevant because they are obviously good seats unless he buys a couple hundred crappy ones) and I cant give them away"

I think it's either a figment of Loverro imagination or some poser. I only spent around $8K a season and I certainly wouldn't talk to some scribbler if I was upset.

[The Chief]

Isn't Loverro an O's shill?  Misery loves company perhaps?

[Dave B]

They might be good businessmen by being cheap/thrifty whatever. But this is a baseball team.  Give me a guy who treats it like a toy or hobby.

I'd hate to think they bought it solely because it could make them money.

They say they arent taking any money out of the team for ten years. They can just stash it in a bank account and call it an asset, raising the price when they finally want to sell.

I'm not upset at them for not spending yet. I am upset with them for charging ML prices for a minor league team, when it was apparent this team blew chunks.  I am upset with them for them not paying rent.

There isnt evidence that they wont spend, but there is cause for concern. You can keep saying "we'll spend when the time is right" while secretly hoping that the team becomes an awesome 40 million dollar payroll team and just waiting 5-10 years to catch lightining in a bottle and say "look, we did it the right way"

[The Chief]

There isnt evidence that they wont spend, but there is cause for concern. You can keep saying "we'll spend when the time is right" while secretly hoping that the team becomes an awesome 40 million dollar payroll team and just waiting 5-10 years to catch lightining in a bottle and say "look, we did it the right way"

I think this is about where I am on the worry scale right now.

[Dave B]

I think it's either a figment of Loverro imagination or some poser. I only spent around $8K a season and I certainly wouldn't talk to some scribbler if I was upset.

I have to reread the quote to see if the guy was upset or just making a point that interest in the team is so low that he cant give away awesome seats. Regardless of whether he was nagging, he couldnt give away good seats. The extent to which he tried is another matter, but still

[hammondsnats]

but this isn't a mall we're talking about.  this is a baseball team, something totally different. 

i'm not saying they have to go overboard on spending for supplies, but it's gotten to a point where a lot of people under them are saying it's becoming a problem, that they are that big of a sticklers ... that's not good. 

i'm sorry i know i sound like i'm beating a dead horse, but so do the majority of the posters on here.  the press is coming out with more of these types of articles, the team is getting so much negative pr, message boards are calling for the lerners heads ... and all mr. lerner does is sit back and say "oh i've heard nothing but good things and seen smiles" he's a freakin liar. 

it really doesn't seem that they care about winning at all.  just as long as their income rises they could give a sh!t about us, the team or a winning product.

[wpa2629]

Suffice to say, I could care less about office supplies and fedex costs -- I don't even think that's relevent.

It's no doubt been a very disappointing year on the field -- I don't blame the ticket holders for being disappointed and it doesn't surprise me that you can't give tickets away for a team that's 30+ games under 500 - that's a reaction to a bad year -- not surprising -- the ticket prices were off, but they are making adjustments to those - and have throughout the year -- and announced that they would next year --

Last year they said they were going to get younger, get more experience for the youngsters who were already here, focus on the farm, build from within and weren't going to spend big bucks on FAs with long contracts -- seems like people are pissed because they did what they said they were going to do -- now they are saying they want a big left handed bat -- if they don't do whatever they can do bring someone like that in -- then people would have every reason to be pissed and disappointed ... and I would be one of them ...

Again, I can't help but think that if the Nats had played up to their potential much of this angst would not even be significant ...