Lerners withhold Rent on Nats Ballpark

[spidernat]

but I wouldn't expect them to pay for work that's not complete.

What about people paying to go see games in an incomplete stadium, not to mention the incomplete product on the field they are paying to go see, can they withhold payment for that also?

[Minty Fresh]

I never even noticed crap like that. I want to see good baseball not a pretty stadium. That's why I didn't mind RFK at all, although I still wanted better baseball.

But this particular dispute is over withholding rent because the stadium is unfinished. 

I am not disputing that the Lerners have been cheap TO THIS POINT, but how can you argue the stadium is finished and hold the Lerners accountable?  It's not possible.  The District screwed the pooch.  They should finish the stadium.  Once finished, the Lerners will either pay the rent or look like the cheap bastards they've proven to be so far. 

[wpa2629]

What about people paying to go see games in an incomplete stadium, not to mention the incomplete product on the field they are paying to go see, can they withhold payment for that also?

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other -- this is not a baseball dispute between the Lerner's and the fans -- this is a construction contract dispute between the city and the owners - the product on the field has absolutely NOTHING to do with the stadium construction - if you want to be pissed at the Lerner's because the Nats lose games - that's fine - but to be pissed at them for not paying rent on an incomplete contract is unreasonable.

Unlike the city ... the fans are not contractually obligated to do anything -- no one is holding a gun to your head -- if you don't want to pay to go to games - then don't.

[wpa2629]

I never even noticed **** like that. I want to see good baseball not a pretty stadium. That's why I didn't mind RFK at all, although I still wanted better baseball.

I never said it was their fault the stadium wasn't finished but everytime I saw Kasten on TV he talked about pushing for the stadium to be completed for this season. I don't pretend to know how all this works but it's clear they rushed the construction as they were still designing it while construction was already under way. I just didn't understand the need to have the stadium rushed, and thus not completed, for this season. And considering the **** they trot out on the field every night what difference would it have made to play one more season at RFK.

MLB's contract with the city stipulated that the stadium be done in time for the 2008 season -- the penalties for NOT opening on time were in the 10s of millions of dollars -- that's why they rushed -- DC signed this contract -- they are obligated to uphold their end of the contract regardless of who they are - it would be the same for anyone else ... DC has no one to blame but themselves on all of this -- just quit nagin and finish the damn job

[blue911]

When Linda Cropp was running for Mayor, she said the MLB deal was one of the worst contracts she had ever seen. The time frame was too short to build anything but a "half finished" stadium.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

And as a side effect, the Lerners' antics have effectively scotched any chance of Council backing the soccer stadium at Poplar Point, which pretty much guarantees that DC United will go to the 'burbs.  freak the Lerners.

 

We should all hope that they dont run the team in a strictly business minded fashion, or else we are going to suck for a long time (low payroll).

All this team has is a weak and upset fanbase that perceives them as cheap. They are the customers. In a strictly business sense you should keep your customers happy too. So the 3.5 million will not necessarily dispell the notion that they are cheap and suck at running a team, but it wont add fuel to the fire. PR is a legit business expense. The 3.5 million is not simply a donation to the DC government. 

[OldChelsea]

And as a side effect, the Lerners' antics have effectively scotched any chance of Council backing the soccer stadium at Poplar Point, which pretty much guarantees that DC United will go to the 'burbs.[...]

...or out of the area altogether, just like the original San Jose Earthquakes did after the 2005 season.

[tomterp]

I just didn't understand the need to have the stadium rushed, and thus not completed, for this season.

The reason is very clear - another year in RFK means another year of very low revenue and in a way a delay of the dream.  The new park has a much higher revenue generating capability, which is what the Lerners paid their $450m to get.  They did a great job getting the Park to playable status, now they just need to execute on finishing out the open items.  They (DC) will get their money, it's just a delay. 

[wpa2629]

And as a side effect, the Lerners' antics have effectively scotched any chance of Council backing the soccer stadium at Poplar Point, which pretty much guarantees that DC United will go to the 'burbs.  **** the Lerners.

 

bull ... the city is to blame for this debacle - not the Lerner's -- DC United should be GRATEFUL for this -- because now they can see first hand what it's like to deal with the ridiculously incompetent, corrupt DC government - if someone as powerful and influential and Jack Kent Cooke couldn't come to terms with the DC government - why would anyone imagine that DC United would be able to ...?

DC made their bed with MLB and the Park -- now they have to lie in it ...

[blue911]

Fenty needs to starting earning his money. The antagonism between the city and the Lerners is counterproductive to both sides.

[wpa2629]

Fenty needs to starting earning his money. The antagonism between the city and the Lerners is counterproductive to both sides.

Yep ... the DC city government is trying to manipulate the media by painting the Lerner's as the bad guys in this -- the Lerner's are basically saying ... **** you .. finish the job or we don't pay -- both sides look bad -- though, personally, I put all of this on the city -- the city needs to finish the job - the Lerner's need to pay when they do -- Fenty needs to see to it that both of these get done as quickly as possible.

[blue911]

Fenty's a little weasel. I have zero respect for the guy. I like Linda Cropp because she'd tell it like it was and not try to BS you.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

I have typed (and erased) about four responses to this, and each one turned into an f-bomb-laden tirade.  But I'll try again: how exactly does the Lerners' doing business in bad faith and poisoning any political support for further public financing of sports facilities become the fault of "the ridiculously incompetent, corrupt DC government"?  I'm really trying here... 

bull ... the city is to blame for this debacle - not the Lerner's -- DC United should be GRATEFUL for this -- because now they can see first hand what it's like to deal with the ridiculously incompetent, corrupt DC government - if someone as powerful and influential and Jack Kent Cooke couldn't come to terms with the DC government - why would anyone imagine that DC United would be able to ...?

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Was the stadium ready on opening day?  Yes.  End of discussion.

Yep ... the DC city government is trying to manipulate the media by painting the Lerner's as the bad guys in this -- the Lerner's are basically saying ... **** you .. finish the job or we don't pay -- both sides look bad -- though, personally, I put all of this on the city -- the city needs to finish the job - the Lerner's need to pay when they do -- Fenty needs to see to it that both of these get done as quickly as possible.

[blue911]

Ali, How are the Lerner's doing business in "bad faith"? They are tenants that are holding the landlord to the terms of the lease.

[wpa2629]

I have typed (and erased) about four responses to this, and each one turned into an f-bomb-laden tirade.  But I'll try again: how exactly does the Lerners' doing business in bad faith and poisoning any political support for further public financing of sports facilities become the fault of "the ridiculously incompetent, corrupt DC government"?  I'm really trying here... 

How are the Lerner's conducting business in bad faith?? DC has not completed the contract! Full payment on contracts are not made by anyone to anyone until all itmes of a contract are complete -- they are withholding the rent 3.5 million -- as anyone would do -- if they don't withhold the rent, what incentive is there for DC to complete the unfinished items? NONE ...  If anything the Lerners are letting the government know that they are going to be held to the same business standards as anyone else -- this is a GOOD thing for DC United or any other entity that wants to do business with the city -- it's unfortunate that the DC government is running and crying to the media about it -- creating a political and pr mess - but it's their own damn fault. 

[wpa2629]

Was the stadium ready on opening day?  Yes.  End of discussion.

Nonsense ... the stadium was functional enough for baseball to be played there and for the fans to have a safe experience on opening day -- that does not excuse DC from honoring their contracturual agreements and completing the job.

[Mathguy]

C'mon - enough of the copout statements that the DC government is incompetant and always at fault for everything.  We are not dealing with the Barry administration any longer.

The point here is what is the best approach to get things done and make the ticket buying, fan appreciation business of baseball operate the most smoothly ?  The Lerners are displaying an "I Gots Ya" mentality.  That approach is counter productive - something we would expect of the police for pulling a car over that's going 5 mph over the speed limit.  While the Lerners have some legal authority to demand furfillment of the contract to the letter, it doesn't mean the end conclusion of employing this tactic will be the best result for either the Lerners, the city, the team, or the fans.

The Lerners are making a mistake here.  The sooner they realize it, the faster this controversy will be over.   

[]

[CALSGR8]

Negotiate in good faith and get the contractor to fix whatever remains.  Case over.   Agree this shouldn't go on forever.  Depends on what remains to be done and how essential those things are. 

I don't pay my contractor in full until the job is done.  Yes, its habitable, but the contractor should honor whatever contract was signed between the owners and the city.  Just being devil's advocate here. 

The Lerners did put more money into the stadium too with improvements that weren't in the plan.  Yeah, its probably for sections I'll never see, but they did pay for improvements none the less.

This is embarrassing for both sides!

[The Chief]

In summary, both sides are "right" in the sense that they believe they are, but the people siding with the Lerners are "more right" from a technical and legal perspective.  Arguments against the Lerners and/or in support of the DC council are a bit more subjective and value-based.

There is no question that this whole fracas is an embarassment to all involved, however.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Ahhhh, Portia 

Seriously, after watching the Nats drag the Astros off into the pines like that, the sordid details of the Lerners and DC Council just don't matter a whole lot (tonight, anyways)

[shoeshineboy]

There is no question that this whole fracas is an embarassment to all involved, however.

Agreed.

[Evolution33]

But this particular dispute is over withholding rent because the stadium is unfinished. 

I am not disputing that the Lerners have been cheap TO THIS POINT, but how can you argue the stadium is finished and hold the Lerners accountable?  It's not possible.  The District screwed the pooch.  They should finish the stadium.  Once finished, the Lerners will either pay the rent or look like the cheap bastards they've proven to be so far. 

I might be the only person on the internet that thinks the Lerners have been smart up to this point. The only free agents from this past off-season that would have helped any would be Tory Hunter or Aaron Rowand. Carlos Silva is overpaid and is pitching for another one of the worst teams in baseball. This past off-season just wasn't one to spend money. Plus a lot of people were counting the money from the new stadium in last years budget, but I bet the Lerners weren't. It is simply a matter of not spending money you don't have. This off-season they will have money to spend and they better at least try and spend it or everyone has a right to be angry.

[CALSGR8]

Here is the link to Bos' discussion yesterday.  There are sections of the park that remain unfinished.  Just not the ones that we see!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/07/02/DI2008070202737.html

[PANatsFan]

Ali, How are the Lerner's doing business in "bad faith"? They are tenants that are holding the landlord to the terms of the lease.

When you put it that way, my sympathies land instantly with the Lerners.