Author Topic: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?  (Read 1362 times)

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nospinzone1

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WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Topic Start: October 05, 2007, 04:51:50 PM »
CAN WE START A CAMPAIGN TO STOP BUYING CHICON EXPORTS UNLESS THE PRODUCT CANNOT BE FOUND MADE IN THE USA OR IN THE FREE WORLD MARKET?

Offline tomterp

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #1: October 05, 2007, 04:54:24 PM »
What's a Chicon product?

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #2: October 05, 2007, 05:06:17 PM »
I think NOSPIN means CHICOM, which is his shorthand for Chinese Communist (just as his references to Former President Clinton are spelled with a K - sort of a Cyrillic - to imply that Clinton is a Socialist).

Most of us buy Chinese products for the same reason any capitalists would - they are cheaper than the alternatives. If there are any alternatives left.

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #3: October 05, 2007, 05:26:29 PM »
CAN WE START A CAMPAIGN TO STOP BUYING CHICON EXPORTS UNLESS THE PRODUCT CANNOT BE FOUND MADE IN THE USA OR IN THE FREE WORLD MARKET?

Since we moved a third of our manufacturing out of the country during the mid 90's, we'd be boycotting just about everything.  Heck, just to get manufacturing numbers up, the wonderdummies in the Bush adminstration decided the cook at your neighborhood McDonalds takes raw materials to create a burger, and according the to our government no longer holds a food service job, but rather a "manufacturing job."

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #4: October 05, 2007, 05:44:32 PM »
Look inside any freebie you get including some of those cheaper NATS hats.  Uh, "MADE IN CHINA"  :-[

nospinzone1

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #5: October 05, 2007, 05:55:16 PM »
What's a Chicon product?

MEANT CHICOM....SHEIS MADE IN COMMUNIST CHINA

nospinzone1

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #6: October 05, 2007, 05:58:04 PM »
DONT UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT WE LOVE FREEDOM AND THE CHINESE ARE ENSLAVED PEOPLE. THEY USE TONS OF POLITICAL PRISONERS TO MANUFACTURE AND FLOOD US WITH THEIR CRAP. I AM NOT HUNDRED PERCENT PURE BUT THAT IS BECAUSE WHEN I DO BUY THEIR CRAP IS BVECAUSE I CANT FIND IT MADE IN DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES. WE CONTRIBGUTE TO THE FURTHER ENSLAVEMENT OF THEIR PEOPLE BY BUYING THEIR MERCHANDISE. NOW, IF YOU DONT GIVE A crap ABOUT THE OPRESION, BE MY GUEST.

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #7: October 05, 2007, 06:32:00 PM »
DONT UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT WE LOVE FREEDOM AND THE CHINESE ARE ENSLAVED PEOPLE. THEY USE TONS OF POLITICAL PRISONERS TO MANUFACTURE AND FLOOD US WITH THEIR CRAP. I AM NOT HUNDRED PERCENT PURE BUT THAT IS BECAUSE WHEN I DO BUY THEIR CRAP IS BVECAUSE I CANT FIND IT MADE IN DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES. WE CONTRIBGUTE TO THE FURTHER ENSLAVEMENT OF THEIR PEOPLE BY BUYING THEIR MERCHANDISE. NOW, IF YOU DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT THE OPRESION, BE MY GUEST.

Economically, China, like virtually every other growing and intelligent economy, is applying the free market policies of Milton Friedman.  Their middle class is growing exponentially.  Since 2001, Carrefour, Europe's largest retailer, has opened 101 superstores in mainland China.  Likewise, Walmart has also opened 101 superstores.  That's a small number when compared to the total population, but it is growing due to China's manufacturing employing its middle class.  Just between those two retailers, that a new store opening every 10+ days, and it is not keeping up with China's expanding middle class.   The income and wealth is growing quite rapidly as Chinese labor costs are going up at ever-increasing rates in an strong employee market.  While these higher labor costs will be passed through to us as China effectively exports its inflation, our trade deficit with China has actually relieved oppression and provided more freedom for its people. 

nospinzone1

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #8: October 05, 2007, 06:40:04 PM »
THEY ALSO HAVE NOT BACKED AWAY FROM REPRESSION AND THEIR PROPHECY THAT "WE WILL BUY FROM THE AMERICANS THE NOOSE TO HANG THEM.

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #9: October 05, 2007, 08:19:38 PM »
THEY ALSO HAVE NOT BACKED AWAY FROM REPRESSION AND THEIR PROPHECY THAT "WE WILL BUY FROM THE AMERICANS THE NOOSE TO HANG THEM.

They don't need to hang us.  We've doing a damned fine job of shooting ourselves.  About 99% of our problems with China are our own fault.  Congress, though, would rather throw up smoke and mirrors than to confess its own ineptitude.  I could have strangled Murtha over perhaps the dumbest utterings ever from a US politician last weekend.  I've been skeptical of the sudden blaming of China for everything.  There is a lot of political manipulation going on through the media.

China is not at fault for building goods to specs designed by US engineers, but the media tries fervently to make us believe that's the case, blaming China for a baby crib built exactly to the US specs.  Mattel's apology to China for the toy fiasco was widely broadcast throughout the the world, with the exception of the US as our media tries to keep us in a bubble.  Their incidence of quality control failures is almost identical to that in the US.  Further, virutually all those products, including the toys and pet food, passed testing here in the US.  Every last one of the pet food products was tested and packaged in the US.  While the rest of the world was wondering what the heck we were up to now, our media, getting its lead as usual from Congress, made it sound like a deliberate sabotage for the purpose of supporting tariffs against China rather than admitting our government has totally f***ed up.

A similar story with which you can relate is the media/Congressional manipulation of the story about Limbaugh and the phony soldiers.  Personally, I can't stand Limbaugh, but am rightfully skeptical of any Media Matters states (and the entire US media, CNN, FOX, all them for that matter).  The reality is that in the transcripts is it transparently clear Limbaugh was speaking of a couple guys, including Jesse Macbeth, who MoveOn knew were not soldiers  and never served in Iraq.  Macbeth was thrown out of the Army after 44 days with a dishonorable, never received any of the honors and recognitions MoveOn claimed, has never left the US, much less ever witness any atrocities in Iraq.  In truth, Macbeth was indeed a phony who had been convicted for fraud for applying for PTSD and other VA benefits, and was in jail serving a 5-month sentence when MoveOn published their trash, and none of the "soldiers" that MoveOn promoted ever served a day in either Afghanistan or Iraq.  They were, as Limbaugh called them, "Phony soldiers."  Nonetheless, the media/Congress, and worthless "Media Matters" BS organization have likewise intentionally twisted the facts.  They are, to a very large degree, likewise twisting the China stories.

If you want a good review of the news that the rest of the world sees, which our media refuses to publish, some good sources that I read every day and recommend are:

World News http://www.wn.com
  From the topics on the left, you can find almost any news in the world - enormous sections on Europe, South America, and every region of the world. 

Khaleej Times (UAE) http://www.khaleejtimes.com
  Check out the Middle East, Sub Continent, and Business sections from the panel on the left. 

Asia Times (China) http://www.atimes.com
  Check out the China Business and World Business on from the left panel, as well as the home page.  There are A LOT of rekown US economists and writers in their business section who the NY Times, Washington Post, and Wall Street Journal (actually, the WSJ, in it opinions, etc. is a very liberal newspaper) refuse to publish.  Oddly enough, Asia Times has one of the more economically free and conservative business sections you'll ever find.

Times of India Times of India
  Good business and info tech sections.  Also, you can find out about how Bush's nuclear agreement with India is threatening to topple its government, pushing the nation ever closer to Russia.

That covers 3 or the 4 BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, and China).  I haven't found an English edition of anything worthwhile from Brazil.  I also read Pravda, but its really not much more than a grocery story gossip rag.

Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #10: October 05, 2007, 10:50:24 PM »
MMmmm, smell that American hypocrisy in the air?  You do?

That will be $5.95, please.

nospinzone1

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #11: October 05, 2007, 10:52:39 PM »
A LOT OF THE BLAME IS US. IF WE DONT BUY THE SHEIS THEY MAKE, WHETHER TO SPECIFICATIONS OR NOT, THOSE BIG BUSINESSES WOULD GET THE MESSAGE.

Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #12: October 05, 2007, 10:57:24 PM »
Yes, very true and it would be the right thing to do.  But it won't happen.  Capitalist ideology, especially the irresponsible and greedy kind, is a powerful thing to fight.  Sort of like crack addiction but worse.

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #13: October 05, 2007, 11:33:37 PM »
Yes, very true and it would be the right thing to do.  But it won't happen.  Capitalist ideology, especially the irresponsible and greedy kind, is a powerful thing to fight.  Sort of like crack addiction but worse.

The American consumer is a unique breed of creature.  We've had a lot of help by government example, media, marketing, and 18 years of Alan Friggin' Greenspan convincing the consumer to live beyond its means.    We've had a poor savings rate throughout the Greenspan years as he promoted easy credit as a means to build the economy and build bubbles that kept bursting.  For 2005 and 2006, for the first time since the great depression, we've had a negative saving rates.  The numbers for 2007 so far make it look like it will, for the first time ever, be 3 consecutive years of negative savings.  Our appetite is insatiable, even when over our ears in debt.  Apparently people are maxing out their MasterCard and Visa as today's monthly consumer credit report was the 5th highest in history even though credit has tightened substantially.  The four months that were higher were all also this year:  January (2nd), May (1st), July (3rd), and August (2nd).  For 2005 and 2006, the savings rate was a negative 2%, and it is slightly over a negative 2% so far this year.

The crack addition analogy is, unfortunately, extremely accurate.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #14: October 06, 2007, 04:30:12 AM »
Why is Greenspan to blame for the fiscal insanity of 2000 to present?

Offline NatsAddict

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #15: October 06, 2007, 09:18:41 AM »
Why is Greenspan to blame for the fiscal insanity of 2000 to present?

The governmental fiscal insanity?  He's more of an outlier, attempting to falsely inflate the $US in order to attract debt financing to support the habit of a republican congress and president on a spending binge.

Where is the primary contributor, though, is that throughout his tenure, he kept making for easy credit, dramatically increasing the money supply, which created various bubbles in the financial markets and eventually even the real estate market.  It finally got so out of hand that he started an asinine series of rate hikes when there was no other economic reason for doing so other than a vain attempt to reign in the runaway bubble.  The true economic fundamentals were in poor shape, and thus his rate hikes had virtually no impact on long-term rates.  Therefore, the housing bubble continued to march onward, we've been in an inverted yield curve for most of the past two years, and he just mumbles "conundrum."  On November, 2005, he announced that March 23, 2006 would be the last day that the Fed would disclose the full money supply.  This was more than a pin-prick, this was a slap upside the head that the $US was about to fall in a big way and that we will be facing inflation rates that we've never seen before.  As a result, look at what happened to the world gold as that news spread broke:



Thanks to hurricane Wilma, we were without power when that news broke, and I missed out on the first 10% of the climb.  However, the rest of the world caught on immediately.  $US securities started being sold throughout the world, and investment turned to gold.  We sold almost nothing from that point through March of 2006 that was more than a 90-day note.

The week before March 23, 2006 the Euro was trading at 1.18/$US.  The week after, it was 1.23/$US.  And, of course today it is sitting at $1.41/$US and gold is sitting at $741.  This rapid decline is primarily due to the failed policies of Alan Greenspan.  The worst impact is the number of countries, particularly those in the Middle East, that are dropping the $US.  Of course Iran and Syria have dropped the $US. Iraq had announced its dropping of the $US, but the very first thing we did after Saddam fell was to re-establish it as Iraq's oil exchange currency.  But, we've lost Kuwait and the UAE this year as the decline of the $US was causing them huge inflation rates.  The Saudi's are on the fence.  I don't think they'll turn on us as they want our military weaponry (although Russia is making a huge push).  However, they still plan on weaning off the $US starting no later than 2010.  I hope they don't.  If they do, that act alone regardless of anything else, will end our reign as the world's reserve currency.  If that should happen, it will further compound the difficultly in financing our governmental spending.  Those people with ARM mortgages that lock in at 12%, or whatever their max rate is, will be considered fortunate.  One thing Greenspan did reported get right in his book (I haven't read it myself, yet) is that before the next president gets out of office, 10% inflation will be the norm - and that's if the $US is still the world's reserve currency.  My biggest worry is that he is estimating too low, even if we do somehow remain the reserve currency.  If the $US loses its reserve status, that 10% won't even be close.  And, although in his book, Greenspan whines that it is all a conundrum, the inflation, interest rates, declining $US, and the potential loss of reserve currency status are indeed his legacy.

A couple other related things the media has not appropriately covered, or, in most cases completely whiffed:

About half of all corporate profits from US operations over the past several years has come from banking and finance.  I'm sure you've seen how well they are(n't) doing right now.  Also, watch out for false profit reports, especially from service companies.  Most of their operations are offshore, and will be affected by exchange rates.  For example, last year the Euro averaged about 1.26/$US.  This year, it will probably average about 1.39/$US.  A company that sold a million euros worth of services last year reported US revenue of $1,260,000.  This year, that same company could have had a 5% decline in actual production, selling 950,000 euros, yet reported US revenue climbs to $1,320,500.   A 5% decline will be reported as a 5% increase simply due to the collapsing $US, and it will go right over the heads of all the idiots in the media.  They can't distinguish between growth and shrinkage.

One last thing to watch is the interest rates on our securities.  Immediately before the Fed lowered rates on the 18th, the benchmark rate on the 10-year note was 4.44%.  With a .5% rate cut in both the fed funds and the discount rates, the 10-year note rate immediately CLIMBED.  It's now at 4.64%, up .2% following a .5% rate cut.  That's a kick in the teeth to let us know of upcoming inflation.  Compounding this further, and a story kept quiet in our media, is that last Saturday, China announced it was going to sell-off of $200 billion of $US securities.  While the terms aren't published, and assuming they act with some prudence, this will still cause our interest rates to climb regardless of our economic circumstances.  Also, this may be an indicator that China will be greatly cutting back on purchasing of further $US securities, which will cause interest rates to climb and, paradoxically, the $US to fall.


Offline NatsAddict

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #16: October 06, 2007, 10:54:46 AM »
Here is today's Saudi take on the Greenspan legacy:

Quote
Saudi king asks officials to explain rising prices
(Reuters)
6 October 2007


RIYADH - Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah has summoned the interior minister and provincial governors to explain rising inflation, which hit a seven-year high in August, Saudi media reported.

The king asked for ‘prompt reports’ at the last weekly government meeting on Monday, Interior Minister Prince Nayef bin Abdul-Aziz said in remarks published on Thursday and Friday.

State-news agency SPA said the monarch met the interior minister and provincial governors on Wednesday.

Inflation in August was 4.4 percent from a year earlier, driven mainly by a record 12.1 percent jump in rents and a 6.6 percent rise in prices of food products, according to data released this week.

The data raised pressure on the central bank which is torn between the need to contain prices and avoid appreciation of its dollar-pegged currency.

In a full-page advertisement published on Saturday, the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Jeddah, the kingdom’s commercial capital, said the rise in prices was caused by external factors including the decline in the US dollar, which hit record lows against a basket of six currencies last week.


Al Jazirah newspaper quoted Prince Nayef as saying it was important to examine whether the causes of inflation were domestic or external. The problem may have been blown out of proportion, he said.

‘What is certain is that prices are higher in all neighbouring countries,’ he said.

Inflation is rising across the Gulf Arab region. In May Kuwait broke ranks with its neighbours and dropped its peg to the dollar, saying the US currency’s decline was making imports more expensive and fuelling inflation.

The Saudi central bank has repeatedly ruled out any change in currency policy, which forces it to shadow U.S interest rate moves to maintain the relative appeal of the riyal and hampers the fight against inflation.

The world’s largest oil exporter declined to match the US Federal Reserve’s interest rate cut last month, driving the riyal to a 21-year high on speculation that the central bank would allow the currency to rise against the dollar.

Before that, the Shura Council which advises the government on draft laws called for action after inflation hit 3.83 percent in July.
Khaleej Times

nospinzone1

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Re: WHY DO WE BUY CHICOM PRODUCTS?
« Reply #17: October 06, 2007, 04:09:41 PM »
Why is Greenspan to blame for the fiscal insanity of 2000 to present?

I GUESS YOU DO NOT THINK THAT HE WIELDED A LOT OF INFLUENCE IN THE WAY MARKETS MOVED. TO ME AFTER READING A LITTLE BIT ON HIS WATCH SEEMS TO ME HE IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITES THERE IS IN WASHINGTON. IMAGINE BEING APPOINTED BY CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENTS AND ALL THE WHILE HE HELD HIS TONGUE INSTEAD OF SAYING WHAT HE REALLY THOUGHT. FRANKLY, I WOULD NOT WANT HIM IN MY CIRCLE OF FRIENDS.