Patterson back from Toronto

[Kenz aFan]

I suggest you look up "worthy" in your dictionary.

Ken, on his way to hell, suggests you look up "futility" in yours

[Ericas Nats]

look up hell:

pix of spidey, kenz & ericas nats in basket held by thunderstrucknatsfan

 

[thunderstrucknatsfan]

That was 2 years ago, and was also just one year.

"When healthy." Big deal. It doesn't matter how good he can be if he can never be healthy. It seems his arm is always in pain and his velocity seems to have dived down. He was awful this year but I guess he was hurt also. I just don't see a bright future for him.

I want him to do great, he seems like a great guy who has had a lot of bad breaks. And being injury-prone, well, that's just how some people are (see Nicky J). But it probably won't happen.

If you know anything of Patterson's history, you know that 2005 was his first full year in the majors - the radio announcers referred to him as "almost a rookie" in Spring Training that year - so it was really his first opportunity to pitch 30+ games and almost 200 innings.  And as I said, he started off great in ST 2006, but his arm has never been completely right since that last ST game in 2006.   By the way, he pitched so well for the D-Backs in 2002 when he was called up to sub for a pitcher who was on the DL, that he was to be their #4 starter in 2003, but for some reason, he did not figure in then-manager Bob Brenly's plans so he spent most of that season in AAA("he was 5 innings shy of winning the PCL ERA crown") and was traded to the Expos in ST 2004.  From what I have heard/read his arm has been in almost constant pain since the last ST game in 2006.  Even so, he pitched several very good games in 2006. You are right that he has not been good in 2007, with the exception of the San Diego game and one other that he should have won, but his velocity was down, he needed to regain arm strength, and he has had an almost constant burning/throbbing pain in his arm.  It is difficult to be an effective pitcher under those conditions.  He did not want to spend even one day on the DL , but it finally got to the point that he was just hurting the team and himself by going out there and trying to pitch through it.

I stand by what I said previously: In my  opinion he has proved  he is a major league caliber pitcher, and if he does not come back strong, it will not be because he is not a #1 starter, but because his arm is still not right. Whatever happens, I will support him, because I know that he is doing his best.  He has been through a lot of adversity and  has never given up.

[Kenz aFan]

look up hell:

pix of spidey, kenz & ericas nats in basket held by thunderstrucknatsfan

 

WOW, you're right the three of us would fit...

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

I've got to say that your tenacity is pretty amazing.  I like that...nothing would please me more than JP coming roaring out of the tunnel, though I'm a little skeptical (like most everyone else) at this point.  But, wow, would i ever love to be proved wrong here!

If you know anything of Patterson's history, you know that 2005 was his first full year in the majors - the radio announcers referred to him as "almost a rookie" in Spring Training that year - so it was really his first opportunity to pitch 30+ games and almost 200 innings.  And as I said, he started off great in ST 2006, but his arm has never been completely right since that last ST game in 2006.   By the way, he pitched so well for the D-Backs in 2002 when he was called up to sub for a pitcher who was on the DL, that he was to be their #4 starter in 2003, but for some reason, he did not figure in then-manager Bob Brenly's plans so he spent most of that season in AAA("he was 5 innings shy of winning the PCL ERA crown") and was traded to the Expos in ST 2004.  From what I have heard/read his arm has been in almost constant pain since the last ST game in 2006.  Even so, he pitched several very good games in 2006. You are right that he has not been good in 2007, with the exception of the San Diego game and one other that he should have won, but his velocity was down, he needed to regain arm strength, and he has had an almost constant burning/throbbing pain in his arm.  It is difficult to be an effective pitcher under those conditions.  He did not want to spend even one day on the DL , but it finally got to the point that he was just hurting the team and himself by going out there and trying to pitch through it.

I stand by what I said previously: In my  opinion he has proved  he is a major league caliber pitcher, and if he does not come back strong, it will not be because he is not a #1 starter, but because his arm is still not right. Whatever happens, I will support him, because I know that he is doing his best.  He has been through a lot of adversity and  has never given up.

[saltydad]

If you know anything of Patterson's history, you know that 2005 was his first full year in the majors - the radio announcers referred to him as "almost a rookie" in Spring Training that year - so it was really his first opportunity to pitch 30+ games and almost 200 innings.  And as I said, he started off great in ST 2006, but his arm has never been completely right since that last ST game in 2006.   By the way, he pitched so well for the D-Backs in 2002 when he was called up to sub for a pitcher who was on the DL, that he was to be their #4 starter in 2003, but for some reason, he did not figure in then-manager Bob Brenly's plans so he spent most of that season in AAA("he was 5 innings shy of winning the PCL ERA crown") and was traded to the Expos in ST 2004.  From what I have heard/read his arm has been in almost constant pain since the last ST game in 2006.  Even so, he pitched several very good games in 2006. You are right that he has not been good in 2007, with the exception of the San Diego game and one other that he should have won, but his velocity was down, he needed to regain arm strength, and he has had an almost constant burning/throbbing pain in his arm.  It is difficult to be an effective pitcher under those conditions.  He did not want to spend even one day on the DL , but it finally got to the point that he was just hurting the team and himself by going out there and trying to pitch through it.

I stand by what I said previously: In my  opinion he has proved  he is a major league caliber pitcher, and if he does not come back strong, it will not be because he is not a #1 starter, but because his arm is still not right. Whatever happens, I will support him, because I know that he is doing his best.  He has been through a lot of adversity and  has never given up.

You know I think everyone on this board has the same hopes for JP that you do. The skill is there, or at least could be if he continued to pitch and progress. It's just that every time our hopes are up, they're dashed on the rocks of another injury. And it has been since 2005 that we've seen a healthy JP. This isn't personal for us, not in the sense that we're after him. But we need good starting pitching, and he hasn't been able to give it to us for a year or so. I don't think he's malingering or otherwise personally responsible for his physical condition anymore than I am for having hypertension since I was 25 (blame my father's genes for that!). I just wish you wouldn't take the skeptical posts so personally. We're all Nats fanatics here!!

[spidernat]

... we need good starting pitching, and he hasn't been able to give it to us for a year or so. I don't think he's malingering or otherwise personally responsible for his physical condition anymore than I am for having hypertension since I was 25 (blame my father's genes for that!). I just wish you wouldn't take the skeptical posts so personally. We're all Nats fanatics here!!

 

(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.) WOW, you're right the three of us would fit...

I may regret asking but which one of those smileys is me?

[thunderstrucknatsfan]

Ken, on his way to hell, suggests you look up "futility" in yours

Ah yes, I know all too well the meaning of "futility".  futility: trying to make the posters on nationalsforum.net understand the truth about John Patterson.



Why are you on your way to hell?

[tomterp]

Why are you on your way to hell?

Because their posts on JP are not merely expressions of their opinions of Patterson, but are also intended to goad you into a response, would be my take on it.

[kimnat]

No, they mean it for talking ill of JP.  It sounds tongue-in-cheek.

[thunderstrucknatsfan]

You know I think everyone on this board has the same hopes for JP that you do. The skill is there, or at least could be if he continued to pitch and progress. It's just that every time our hopes are up, they're dashed on the rocks of another injury. And it has been since 2005 that we've seen a healthy JP. This isn't personal for us, not in the sense that we're after him. But we need good starting pitching, and he hasn't been able to give it to us for a year or so. I don't think he's malingering or otherwise personally responsible for his physical condition anymore than I am for having hypertension since I was 25 (blame my father's genes for that!). I just wish you wouldn't take the skeptical posts so personally. We're all Nats fanatics here!!

I hope that you are correct that "everyone on this board has the same hopes for JP that you do", but I am very skeptical.  If that is the case, why write such mean-spirited things about him?  He is not in any way responsible for any of his injuries, and in fact, has tried to pitch through them and avoid going on the DL  It is not lack of talent or lack of determination that has kept him from being able to do this.  The nearly constant pain has affected every facet of his pitching - velocity, control, and command.  Why so much vituperation directed against him?  Shawn Hill has a worse injury history than Patterson, but I don't see people bashing him. (and, of course, he doesn't deserve it any more than Patterson does.)  One blogger believes the reason people have turned against Patterson is because they had such high hopes for him and he has let them down.  But it is not PATTERSON who has let them down - it is his ARM that has let HIM down, and I can guarantee you that no one is more unhappy, frustrated, and concerned than Patterson, himself.  He wants to pitch and he wants to help the team.  Obviously, I think that he deserves sympathy and suppport rather than being kicked when he is down.

I wish I did not take it so personally either, it is no fun for me to read the unkind things that are written about him, but is it my nature to defend the underdog if I deem him deserving, and I believe that Patterson is deserving of defence!  I know many of you will laugh at me and that is fine if that is the way you feel.  Direct your scorn at me rather than Patterson.

[spidernat]

No, they mean it for talking ill of JP.  It sounds tongue-in-cheek.

I didn't say the thing about going to hell but perhaps that's how Erica meant it (and she may have been right in light of the fact that thunder seems to have cornered the market on "The truth about JP"). As for goading thunder into a response, I won't speak for Erica and Ken but that isn't my intent at all. I couldn't care less whether she responds or not I will state my opinion on JP whether anyone agrees with it or not. I just don't appreciate the fact that some posters are chastened because they don't worship JP and exalt him as the anointed "Ace".

[JMW IV]

Erica- the last time patterson pitched was earlier this season. Not to sound redundant but is nick johnson EVER going to play again?

[spidernat]

Erica- the last time patterson pitched was earlier this season. Not to sound redundant but is nick johnson EVER going to play again?

That's about as up in the air as JP. I have reservations about whether NJ will ever come back. And if he does, will he have the same ability as a player? I have doubts about that also.

[Ericas Nats]

and you all wonder why young got signed to an 2 year deal

[Ericas Nats]

i think ive also said way back when, i wouldnt be suprised if NJ injury is career ending...

i hope not!

[kimnat]

i think ive also said way back when, i wouldnt be suprised if NJ injury is career ending...

i hope not!

I did too and nobody listened to me either!  That's why I was so vehemently against trading Young. 

[spidernat]

and you all wonder why young got signed to an 2 year deal

That signing could very well be a precautionary move or maybe they really do know more than we do about the injury. Of course the Dmitri detractors will say that we could've gotten someone else to fill that role, like Travis Lee 

[spidernat]

I did too and nobody listened to me either!  That's why I was so vehemently against trading Young. 

 

The way that progressed was pretty funny. It was like watching Kim having a nightmare in which she scream out in alarm at all those around her and no one could hear her  Except that it was only in your imagination because we all heard or read what you were typing but the direction of the discussion never took that turn.

[Ericas Nats]

i really think dtank has improved at first.

[spidernat]

i really think dtank has improved at first.

Dramatically. He still makes the occasional mistake and I would like to see him improve on digging out throws in the dirt but I think we can make do with him at first until Marrero is ready (assuming they move him to 1B and NJ doesn't return). 

[PANatsFan]

Dramatically. He still makes the occasional mistake and I would like to see him improve on digging out throws in the dirt but I think we can make do with him at first until Marrero is ready (assuming they move him to 1B and NJ doesn't return). 

Marrero is completely lost in the outfield, I hear. He needs to move to 1st or we need to build him up and trade him to the AL. I know this sounds blasphemous. He's so exciting from offensive side of the coin, but he needs to play a position. That could stress him out too - Jack Cust never caught on in Pittsburgh or San Diego - he caught fire in the AL.

[spidernat]

Marrero is completely lost in the outfield, I hear. He needs to move to 1st or we need to build him up and trade him to the AL. I know this sounds blasphemous. He's so exciting from offensive side of the coin, but he needs to play a position.

No kidding? I had not heard that. LF is the one position where you can 'hide' and get away with a bad fielder in the big leagues so I wonder what the issue is? Could it be that he never made an effort to work on his fielding? That's something they should begin to address ASAP.

[kimnat]

The way that progressed was pretty funny. It was like watching Kim having a nightmare in which she scream out in alarm at all those around her and no one could hear her  Except that it was only in your imagination because we all heard or read what you were typing but the direction of the discussion never took that turn.

  YES!  That's exactly how it felt!  How'd you know?      At least thanks for the validation. 

[wpa2629]

Dramatically. He still makes the occasional mistake and I would like to see him improve on digging out throws in the dirt but I think we can make do with him at first until Marrero is ready (assuming they move him to 1B and NJ doesn't return). 

Agreed - Dmitri really struggled at first  in the beginning of the year - didn't know how to stretch, couldn't field the ball off the hop - you pretty much had to throw right to him - I think it's been particularly hard on Zim - he had one target all last year - this year he's had Dtank, Batista, Fick, Belliard, etc., - and when you're a player like Zim - who ranges so far to his left and to his right - (just sick with the glove) you're going to get off balance throws and one hoppers at first - the Nats 1st basemen has to know how to field those - or they're going to really struggle to Dtank's credit - he's worked hard on that part of his game and really improved ..