Can Butera, Toboni, and Kilambi channel Beathard and Gibbs? (CBA Stuff)

[PowerBoater69]

The Redskins won Super Bowls in both strike years. With a work outage for the CBA coming up in 2027 can the Nats better navigate the chaos than the rest of the league? The 2020 Nats handled the chaos of Covid worse than every other team in MLB, will it be different this time?

On the topic of the CBA, how happy are the small market teams with the Dodgers right now? Fans are clamoring for a salary cap, the MLBPA has suddenly lost any foothold on public opinion. Are the Dodgers simply taking advantage of the last uncapped year or are the owners colluding?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I do not think 2027 is the year for a championship run. I could see something like enough positions being set that the team may be ready to augment the core a bit assuming a rosy scenario:
a) Crews starts hitting
b) Wood and Lile mash for all of 2026
c) Ford takes over as catcher
d) somebody locks down a corner infield spot (House, Morales, a mystery guy)
e) Gore is dealt for a 2027 useful piece plus
f) Abrams's position is resolved or he's dealt
g) internal reliever candidates aren't chumps, and
h) 3 or 4 internal guys show enough to have a respectable  rotation.

Lots  of ifs, which is an indication of how far  this team is from pulling things together for  a 2027 run.

[Slateman]

The Redskins won Super Bowls in both strike years.

Gibbs won three Super Bowls and Beathard won four. So what the freak does having a strike shortened season have to do with anything? Gibbs went on to win five NASCAR championships. He might be one of the top ten coaches of all time, in all of sports. Great coaches/executives thrive in all conditions and learn how to adapt to them. Also, football is so vastly different than baseball its not worth talking about. A full football season has about the same urgency as the last month of a regular MLB season. There's nothing to channel as Gibbs and Beathard would be more aligned to Dusty Baker and Mike Rizzo in today's game.

With a work outage for the CBA coming up in 2027 can the Nats better navigate the chaos than the rest of the league?

No one has any idea about what 2027 will look like. Exactly what about the Nats is designed to "better navigate the chaos than the rest of the league?" So far, our new front office has proven it's capable of nothing. And what does a team need to do to navigate the "chaos" better than other teams?

The 2020 Nats handled the chaos of Covid worse than every other team in MLB, will it be different this time?

Huh? How did they handle covid worse than every other team? What specific actions did other teams take that enabled them to handle covid well?

On the topic of the CBA, how happy are the small market teams with the Dodgers right now?

Considering they're going to be getting tens of millions of dollars from the Dodgers, I imagine they are quite happy.

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Are the Dodgers simply taking advantage of the last uncapped year or are the owners colluding?

If they are, then so are a lot of other teams. There are currently 10 teams over at least one luxury tax threshold, with a tax bill due of over 500 million dollars. 18 of the 30 teams have luxury tax payroll of 195 million or more. So the majority of teams are spending at or above a competitive level. I guess that counts as collusion?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

As for the effect of the Tucker signing on the CBA, I think the Dodgers are acting rationally. The CBA doesn't punish the top end super teams enough, and they can rationally blow through it. Also, I think a lot of folks have been thinking that shorter high AAV contracts make more sense than the extremely long, pay a guy  into his late 30s, deals. How much worse is the Tucker contract than,  say, Trea Turner's? Tucker is a $240 million commitment, max, while Turner's was a $330 million commitment to a speed guy to age 40. I like Turner, but I could see a negative value to years 36-40.

[PowerBoater69]

I do not think 2027 is the year for a championship run. I could see something like enough positions being set that the team may be ready to augment the core a bit assuming a rosy scenario:
a) Crews starts hitting
b) Wood and Lile mash for all of 2027
c) Ford takes over as catcher
d) somebody locks down a corner infield spot (House, Morales, a mystery guy)
e) Gore is dealt for a 2027 useful piece plus
f) Abrams's position is resolved or he's dealt
g) internal reliever candidates aren't chumps, and
h) 3 or 4 internal guys show enough to have a respectable  rotation.

Lots  of ifs, which is an indication of how far  this team is from pulling things together for  a 2027 run.

i) The Lerners follow the same pattern of spending from the prior rebuild when they brought in Werth
j) The Butera, Toboni, and Kilambi development methodologies boost the average player WAR across the roster

I mentioned Super Bowl, but I'm thinking that if everything breaks right we might be able to take a run at the division. Particularly if this team navigates the CBA uncertainty better than the rest of the division.

[Slateman]

I do not think 2027 is the year for a championship run. I could see something like enough positions being set that the team may be ready to augment the core a bit assuming a rosy scenario:
a) Crews starts hitting
b) Wood and Lile mash for all of 2026
c) Ford takes over as catcher
d) somebody locks down a corner infield spot (House, Morales, a mystery guy)
e) Gore is dealt for a 2027 useful piece plus
f) Abrams's position is resolved or he's dealt
g) internal reliever candidates aren't chumps, and
h) 3 or 4 internal guys show enough to have a respectable  rotation.

Lots  of ifs, which is an indication of how far  this team is from pulling things together for  a 2027 run.

First off, I don't think that with this ownership group and this front office, a championship run is realistic or the goal. 85 wins is the target for ownership, as that will get you to a WC while also minimizing payroll. And I don't think that's particularly realistic in 2027, simply because there won't have been enough time for Toboni to build the depth of talent we need to sustain that. There simply isn't the pitching depth to be an above .500 team and its unlikely to magically appear over the next season or so.

[Slateman]

As for the effect of the Tucker signing on the CBA, I think the Dodgers are acting rationally. The CBA doesn't punish the top end super teams enough, and they can rationally blow through it. Also, I think a lot of folks have been thinking that shorter high AAV contracts make more sense than the extremely long, pay a guy  into his late 30s, deals. How much worse is the Tucker contract than,  say, Trea Turner's? Tucker is a $240 million commitment, max, while Turner's was a $330 million commitment to a speed guy to age 40. I like Turner, but I could see a negative value to years 36-40.

I think spending 100+ million a year on Tucker is pretty irrational. I also think the Dodgers are way more concerned with having a four peat in a sport that's never had one .

[JCA-CrystalCity]

First off, I don't think that with this ownership group and this front office, a championship run is realistic or the goal. 85 wins is the target for ownership, as that will get you to a WC while also minimizing payroll. And I don't think that's particularly realistic in 2027, simply because there won't have been enough time for Toboni to build the depth of talent we need to sustain that. There simply isn't the pitching depth to be an above .500 team and its unlikely to magically appear over the next season or so.

more likely than not, you are right. That's why I strung together the ridiculous rosy scenario that focused more specifically on particular position players  and h then got very general about pitching (i.e., get a shorter term contributor along with others  for Gore, have 3 or 4 rotation spots filled internally, and hope that the internal bullpen candidates aren't chumps). That's also why PB69 added "and they ramp up spending" like they did before once there were signs of having players in place. It's possible that Parker or Irvin can actually be a rotation piece, that Cavalli is #2/#3, Gray is an adequate junkballler,  Perales is healthy and quick help, Clemmey  moves through the rotation, etc...,. etc.., etc... but I can't honestly say these are 3 guys who are likely to be the ones to go forward with and who will be  here by the start of 2027 (knocking out Sykora and the arms drafted last year, for example).

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I think spending 100+ million a year on Tucker is pretty irrational. I also think the Dodgers are way more concerned with having a four peat in a sport that's never had one .

how much money do they make off Japan? When do they get to the point that EN starts seeing Dodgers baseball caps like he sees NYY? Are they now the Real Madrid or Man City of baseball?

[Slateman]

how much money do they make off Japan? When do they get to the point that EN starts seeing Dodgers baseball caps like he sees NYY? Are they now the Real Madrid or Man City of baseball?

A freak ton. Just because you have a ton of money doesn't make spending rational.

[Slateman]

more likely than not, you are right. That's why I strung together the ridiculous rosy scenario that focused more specifically on particular position players  and h then got very general about pitching (i.e., get a shorter term contributor along with others  for Gore, have 3 or 4 rotation spots filled internally, and hope that the internal bullpen candidates aren't chumps). That's also why PB69 added "and they ramp up spending" like they did before once there were signs of having players in place. It's possible that Parker or Irvin can actually be a rotation piece, that Cavalli is #2/#3, Gray is an adequate junkballler,  Perales is healthy and quick help, Clemmey  moves through the rotation, etc...,. etc.., etc... but I can't honestly say these are 3 guys who are likely to be the ones to go forward with and who will be  here by the start of 2027 (knocking out Sykora and the arms drafted last year, for example).

I just don't see the last one. I just don't see where 3 or 4 internal guys are going to be able to carry a rotation. Even if you keep Gore, we have a bunch of 5/swing men in Irvin, Parker, and Gray. Lord is barely a 4. Cavalli and Herz are just as likely to end up as bullpen pieces as serviceable starters.

So where are our 2 and 3 starters coming from? Maybe Sykora, but relying on guys coming off TJS is dubious. Susana will likely be headed to TJS if he isn't converted to a reliever. Perales and Clemmey are relievers.

The rotation and Ford at catcher are two major concerns with this club.

[IanRubbish]

i) The Lerners follow the same pattern of spending from the prior rebuild when they brought in Werth

Not happening. Old man reached a point where he wanted to win, Mini Me is just trying to preserve family wealth on its way to being filtered through more beneficiaries.

Based on the limited activity this offseason, Mini Me probably has Toboni on a short leash, I don't think any baseball exec team could succeed with this ownership.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I just don't see the last one. I just don't see where 3 or 4 internal guys are going to be able to carry a rotation. Even if you keep Gore, we have a bunch of 5/swing men in Irvin, Parker, and Gray. Lord is barely a 4. Cavalli and Herz are just as likely to end up as bullpen pieces as serviceable starters.

So where are our 2 and 3 starters coming from? Maybe Sykora, but relying on guys coming off TJS is dubious. Susana will likely be headed to TJS if he isn't converted to a reliever. Perales and Clemmey are relievers.

The rotation and Ford at catcher are two major concerns with this club.

I don't disagree. It really breaks down once you  start hoping for any of the recent guys who have been in MLB becoming better than they  have shown. Both Parker and Irvin had decent stretches in 2024 but regressed a ton last year. IDK if their success was due to lack of familiarity, but I think that may explain Parker and his motion.

[PowerBoater69]

Toboni is fixing to come on the MLB channel on XM in a few minutes, anyone with access willing to share the high points?

[English Natsie]

When do they get to the point that EN starts seeing Dodgers baseball caps like he sees NYY?

Alas, it's already happening...although, in the same way 'NY' is a fashion brand, few (if any) know the origin of the 'LA' logo...

[varoadking]

When do they get to the point that EN starts seeing Dodgers baseball caps like he sees NYY?

EN?

[Natsinpwc]

EN?

Empty Net?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

EN?

English Natsie

[varoadking]

English Natsie

 

[PowerBoater69]

i) The Lerners follow the same pattern of spending from the prior rebuild when they brought in Werth
j) The Butera, Toboni, and Kilambi development methodologies boost the average player WAR across the roster

I mentioned Super Bowl, but I'm thinking that if everything breaks right we might be able to take a run at the division. Particularly if this team navigates the CBA uncertainty better than the rest of the division.

j is done, that is happening, i comes after the new CBA is in place.

@JesseRogersESPN
BREAKING: As expected, MLB proposed a hard salary cap to union officials today as part of the next CBA, sources tell ESPN. The salary floor for teams beginning in 2027 would be set at $171.2 million which includes player benefits with the ceiling at $245.3 million.

That's just the starting positions for MLB, they'll go up on both the cap and the floor to get the deal done. Then NBA and NFL style, cap space becomes king, and Toboni has us way way under the cap. When the big spending teams are ducking under the cap, we'll be buying.

@EvanDrellich
It's a huge deal — albeit expected — that MLB is proposing centralizing all local TV revenue as part of its salary-cap proposal.

That would certainly help the Nats.

[zimm_da_kid]

That's just the starting positions for MLB, they'll go up on both the cap and the floor to get the deal done. Then NBA and NFL style, cap space becomes king, and Toboni has us way way under the cap. When the big spending teams are ducking under the cap, we'll be buying.

NBA distressed asset trades are fascinating. The wizards getting AD and Young this past trade deadline could be the blueprint. For example, what could we get by taking on Machado and freeing the Padres of their cap burden? Likely a lot

[PowerBoater69]

NBA distressed asset trades are fascinating. The wizards getting AD and Young this past trade deadline could be the blueprint. For example, what could we get by taking on Machado and freeing the Padres of their cap burden? Likely a lot

Right? And think of the value of all of those teenagers that DeBartolo drafted and Toboni brought in? Years and years of talent in the pipeline with controlled salaries.

[blue911]

NBA distressed asset trades are fascinating. The wizards getting AD and Young this past trade deadline could be the blueprint. For example, what could we get by taking on Machado and freeing the Padres of their cap burden? Likely a lot

The only way I want Machado is if they let bring a wrist rocket and a bag of marbles.

[Slateman]

j is done, that is happening, i comes after the new CBA is in place.


That's just the starting positions for MLB, they'll go up on both the cap and the floor to get the deal done. Then NBA and NFL style, cap space becomes king, and Toboni has us way way under the cap. When the big spending teams are ducking under the cap, we'll be buying.

That would certainly help the Nats.

at the owners accepting a higher floor than that and the players accepting a cap.

[imref]

Players should accept the owners offer just to watch what happens to the dodgers, Mets, and Yankees.