Author Topic: Rizzo and Davey Canned  (Read 29787 times)

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Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #825 on: April 21, 2026, 09:52:16 am »
I didn't agree with the hire in 2016, and that might have been the time to give Davey or Bud Black a shot.

Online varoadking

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #826 on: April 21, 2026, 09:59:33 am »
Never should have not brought back Dusty. Great regular season manager who got better at post season managing in DC and Houston at the end

No argument here...dimwit dave was a colossal F-up...he just happened to end up at the right place at the right time...for 112 games.  If it wasn't for Trent Grisham, he'd have been fired at the end of 2019...

Offline Smithian

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #827 on: April 21, 2026, 10:43:50 am »
Never should have not brought back Dusty. Great regular season manager who got better at post season managing in DC and Houston at the end
Wrong.

He was freaking dreadful in DC at postseason managing. He used Sammy Solis in meaningful playoff situations.

Also, Houston basically Dusty-proofed their bullpen. Pressly, Montero, Nerris, Abreu, and Stanek were all closer-level relievers.

Dusty should have never been hired in 2016. Should have been Davey Martinez. We'd have multiple WS championships
This is a great scenario to think about. I think Dusty Baker was a clubhouse hire after the issues off the field under Matt Williams. That was right at the time. He had two good regular seasons with the Nats. Both ended in disaster.

I'm of the opinion managers are very unimportant unless they oversee clubhouse dysfunction.

I wanted Baker back but wasn't too torn up when he was let go. When Martinez was brought in, year one was ugly. He deserves a lot of credit in year 2 not letting that 19-31 stat turn into an absolute disaster. As far as the postseason, I think he made mostly the right moves at the right times. Even some lineup changes and using starters in relief, I initially disagreed with him but it almost without fail worked out.

Martinez needed to be fired when he was if not earlier, still that doesn't change as a manager in a Game 7 of the World Series he was good enough to get the job done. And unfortunately for him, had he been let go by Nats sooner, he may have gotten another shot managing. Instead, I think he is done unless he feels the passion to come back as an assistant.

Offline rbw5t

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #828 on: April 21, 2026, 01:01:54 pm »
I didn't agree with the hire in 2016, and that might have been the time to give Davey or Bud Black a shot.

Remember Dusty only got hired after we’d essentially already hired Bud Black, and low-balled him so badly that the deal fell apart. Dusty was willing to work cheap to take another shot at the WS.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #829 on: April 21, 2026, 01:51:25 pm »
Remember Dusty only got hired after we’d essentially already hired Bud Black, and low-balled him so badly that the deal fell apart. Dusty was willing to work cheap to take another shot at the WS.
true. Not defending the cheaping out. just saying I would  have rather had Black or given Martinez a chance after 2015. Dusty impressed me when he came on board. I would have brought him back rather than switch to Martinez for 2018, not so much because I didn't like Martinez as I thought Dusty earned a shot at 2018.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #830 on: April 21, 2026, 02:02:15 pm »
I hated the Dusty Baker hire when it was announced but it took me about 5 minutes to realize some of the criticism was unfounded. And when Mike Maddux was hired and sort of given the pitching staff, I learned to like it.

I think all the Nationals hires were pretty good and defensible. Retaining Riggleman made sense, Davey Johnson, Matt Williams, Baker, Martinez all made sense. Buter may be the first hire where I'm really wait and see whether it was a bold hire gambling on organizational alignment or a too cute by half decision.


Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #831 on: April 30, 2026, 10:20:36 am »
From today's OC post:

Thank you to friends old and new who participated by viewing or posting comments.

With the :w: posted, we honor the memory of our friend Old Chelsea with the traditional post that tracks the Nats wins to date, in Anglophile style.

THE RACING PRECEDENTS - Comparative dates on which the Nationals notched their 14th win, each season:

2016 - 24th April (18th match of season)
2012 - 25th April (18th match)
2017 - 25th April (20th match)
2014 - 26th April (25th match)
2024 - 29th April (28th match)
2026 - 29th April (31st match)
2013 - 1st May (28th match)
2018 - 1st May (30th match)
2025 - 1st May (32nd match)
2005 - 2nd May (26th match)
2011 - 2nd May (28th match)
2010 - 4th May (26th match)
2008 - 4th May (32nd match)
2019 - 4th May (32nd match)
2015 - 6th May (29th match)
2023 - 7th May (34th match)
2021 - 13th May (32nd match)
2007 - 16th May (40th match)
2006 - 18th May (41st match)
2022 - 22nd May (42nd match)
2009 - 24th May (44th match)
2020 - 5th September (38th match)

I think we forget just how optimistic some of us were at the start of 2024. That team was .500 when it won it's 14th game. Wood was crushing it in the minors, and I think Crews was not exposed and doing well enough. One of our more active threads through May was whether the Nats should try for the wild card with some promotions from the minors and some dealing to patch a few holes.  We were coming of a major, surprising improvement in 2023 and it looked like 2024 was on a better pace. The Nats were above .500 as late as May 10, and were only 1 under as late as June 23 (game 77).

I think Rizzo and Davey had a lot of defenders until things fell apart the second half of 2024. Up to that point, Rizzo could  make the sale about the rebuild being on track. Even  with the slow promotion then injury of Wood, it looked like a good wave was coming. Also, Irvin had a good first half and Parker's debut was going well. WE even discussed whether Irvin should be an all star. The Rizzo Reboot peaked late June of 2024.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #832 on: May 04, 2026, 10:12:59 pm »
Federal Baseball posted this picture of a couple of guys who started out strong, then flattened out in the stretch. Oh, and Shawn Kelley, looks like he's cool with Rizzo now.


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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #833 on: May 05, 2026, 09:09:09 pm »
Federal Baseball posted this picture of a couple of guys who started out strong, then flattened out in the stretch. Oh, and Shawn Kelley, looks like he's cool with Rizzo now.


You should have put that photo behind a spoiler banner...

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #834 on: May 11, 2026, 09:49:30 am »
Bennett Lehmann from District on Deck has a nice article on Ronny Cruz that highlights just how good of a run DeBartolo had during his short stint calling the shots. Rizzo pushed the narrative with his minions in the media that he was let go because he refused to fire Martinez, but the timing made it clear that the true reason was to free up DeBartolo to take over the draft board and trade deadline negotiations.

Quote
Actually, the one guy that definitely should be making plans to victory lap is Mike DeBartolo, who was the interim GM of the Nationals last year and helped lead the organization through the trade deadline. He also was the one who made the selection of top prospect Eli Willits, who has been an absolute star so far this season after a slightly slow start.

But back to the trade deadline, perhaps his best moment was getting infield prospect Ronny Cruz back from the Chicago Cubs along with Christian Franklin in exchange for Michael Soroka. Obviously hindsight is 20-20, but giving up Franklin and a now Top 100 prospect in Cruz for 8.1 innings of Soroka is definitely a deal Chicago would want a mulligan on.

https://districtondeck.com/nationals-prospect-s-meteoric-rise-continues-with-new-top-100-mlb-pipeline-ranking-01krahcas9zy

Online varoadking

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #835 on: May 11, 2026, 11:18:34 am »
Bennett Lehmann from District on Deck has a nice article on Ronny Cruz that highlights just how good of a run DeBartolo had during his short stint calling the shots. Rizzo pushed the narrative with his minions in the media that he was let go because he refused to fire Martinez, but the timing made it clear that the true reason was to free up DeBartolo to take over the draft board and trade deadline negotiations.

https://districtondeck.com/nationals-prospect-s-meteoric-rise-continues-with-new-top-100-mlb-pipeline-ranking-01krahcas9zy

I thought the timing was to avoid being stuck with their options for 2026?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #836 on: May 11, 2026, 12:59:01 pm »
I thought the timing was to avoid being stuck with their options for 2026?

I'm not sure about the deadlines to pick up their options, but the team could have declined their options and allowed Rizzo and Martinez to walk after the season. Rizzo was fired because the Lerners didn't want him running (ruining) another draft.

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #837 on: May 11, 2026, 01:02:06 pm »
I'm not sure about the deadlines to pick up their options, but the team could have declined their options and allowed Rizzo and Martinez to walk after the season. Rizzo was fired because the Lerners didn't want him running (ruining) another draft.
there were also conflicting reports at the time about him being fired for not being willing to fire Martinez.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #838 on: May 11, 2026, 01:23:45 pm »
there were also conflicting reports at the time about him being fired for not being willing to fire Martinez.

That report came from Loverro and others, it clearly originated from Rizzo, it was laughable, the media members who reported it should be embarrassed.

Online Slateman

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #839 on: May 11, 2026, 04:47:24 pm »
I thought the timing was to avoid being stuck with their options for 2026?
It was.

Furthermore, apparently TalkNats are now "Rizzo minions" :roll:

https://x.com/talknats/status/1941995311188046274?s=46&t=wCNJG9vuPQWO2am1PO_8KQ

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #840 on: May 13, 2026, 10:04:53 pm »
It's never on the coaching.

Online imref

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #841 on: Yesterday at 07:14:47 pm »
Rizzo put together a heck of an offense. :couch:

Online blue911

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #842 on: Yesterday at 07:20:41 pm »
Rizzo put together a heck of an offense. :couch:

They are making in game adjustments, we never saw that before.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #843 on: Yesterday at 07:50:07 pm »
Rizzo put together a heck of an offense. :couch:

Really makes this quote stand out more to be honest.

It's never on the coaching.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #844 on: Yesterday at 08:09:42 pm »
Really makes this quote stand out more to be honest.

Right. The hugely improved player development is glossing over Rizzo's draft record.

On the other hand, I'm waiting for one of the bloggers to compare the production of the off-season pick-ups year to year (too much work for me). I'd like to see it quantified just how much more production Toboni is getting with how much less money spent.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Rizzo and Davey Canned
« Reply #845 on: Today at 02:57:10 am »
Right. The hugely improved player development is glossing over Rizzo's draft record.

On the other hand, I'm waiting for one of the bloggers to compare the production of the off-season pick-ups year to year (too much work for me). I'd like to see it quantified just how much more production Toboni is getting with how much less money spent.

No question Toboni's a much better dumpster diver than Rizzo.  Weimer, Mead, and Vivas are hall of famers compared to Senzel, Gallo, etc.