Rizzo and Davey Canned

[zoom]

Per Talk Nats:

As we reported on July 1, Dave Martinez's option to manage next year was not picked up per sources who have told us that set a "chain reaction" after Mike Rizzo refused to fire Martinez that ownership got rid of both. Over a month ago, source told us that ownership left Davey's fate up to Rizzo but after being swept in the Red Sox series and the lack of "energy", and scathing articles by Ken Rosenthal and Barry Svrluga, ownership stepped in.

[imref]

Per Talk Nats:

As we reported on July 1, Dave Martinez's option to manage next year was not picked up per sources who have told us that set a "chain reaction" after Mike Rizzo refused to fire Martinez that ownership got rid of both. Over a month ago, source told us that ownership left Davey's fate up to Rizzo but after being swept in the Red Sox series and the lack of "energy", and scathing articles by Ken Rosenthal and Barry Svrluga, ownership stepped in.

Grant Paulson said yesterday he was told that ownership decided to fire both, that Rizzo was not told to fire Davey.

[aspenbubba]

I thought everyone knew this already. All this group has wanted to do is sell this franchise for a boatload of cash and use it to bail out their floundering real estate empire

Please forgive me but what floundering RE empire? Yes, commercial RE is not great but Class A buildings are still making money and that is what the Lerners own. Residential RE that the Lerners own many communities have positive cash flow at the same rates as decades ago. The malls have suffered and White Flint is gone but it will be redeveloped. Tyson’s is holding its own. I think a lot of negative analysis stems from Ian Rubbish posts which are always negative.

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

Man, Rizzo falling on the sword for Davey is rough to see. I know a bunch of you wanted Rizzo gone but I really don’t think this ends up being a positive. I don’t see how this changes the way the Lerners operate and the new GM will just be dealing with the same issues without Rizzo’s pedigree. Just have to hope it all works out.

[imref]

fun with Gemini:

[Count Walewski]

Assuming the new generation of Lerners continues to keep payroll low and generally be cheap, to be successful a GM needs to have a high success rate in the draft and a high success rate in prospects traded for. Post-2019, Rizzo had neither. He had to go, ESPECIALLY if LAC = true.

[NatsLSU]

Rizzo attaching his fate to Davey is maybe he isn’t as smart as I gave him credit for. And the Lerners might as well be the family from Succession. Really hope they can sell soon.

[tomterp]

Please forgive me but what floundering RE empire? Yes, commercial RE is not great but Class A buildings are still making money and that is what the Lerners own. Residential RE that the Lerners own many communities have positive cash flow at the same rates as decades ago. The malls have suffered and White Flint is gone but it will be redeveloped. Tyson’s is holding its own. I think a lot of negative analysis stems from Ian Rubbish posts which are always negative.

We all know enclosed malls have struggled with the closures of anchor stores and lost foot traffic.  I live close to Fair Oaks Mall, and it's had a bad long run but lately I have observed more cars on the decks, and some anchors like Dick's Sporting Goods seem to be hanging in there.  Fair Oaks also has a lot of restaurants that are doing OK.  It's a challenge to assess them, since both Lerners and Olshans (Fair Oaks) are private so there's no disclosure of vacancy rates, rent rates, delinquency of tenants, etc.  Simon Properties is one mall owner that is publicly traded, so financial data is available. (SPG).  Financially they are doing well but they have a huge portfolio compared to the Lerners.  So a long winded way of saying we don't really know how the Lerners are doing with their mall holdings, and as you noted they have other portfolio assets that are likely doing fine.

[Natsinpwc]

We all know enclosed malls have struggled with the closures of anchor stores and lost foot traffic.  I live close to Fair Oaks Mall, and it's had a bad long run but lately I have observed more cars on the decks, and some anchors like Dick's Sporting Goods seem to be hanging in there.  Fair Oaks also has a lot of restaurants that are doing OK.  It's a challenge to assess them, since both Lerners and Olshans (Fair Oaks) are private so there's no disclosure of vacancy rates, rent rates, delinquency of tenants, etc.  Simon Properties is one mall owner that is publicly traded, so financial data is available. (SPG).  Financially they are doing well but they have a huge portfolio compared to the Lerners.  So a long winded way of saying we don't really know how the Lerners are doing with their mall holdings, and as you noted they have other portfolio assets that are likely doing fine.

But aren’t the Tysons malls their main anchors.  Those are still busy all the time.  Plus we know the rich often make most of their money off of investments.  There is no way they have not been making lots of money that way for the last ten years.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Rizzo could not read it.  Someone would have to do that for him. 

Also no one cares what he thinks.  He was an inept GM for the Nats, not like there's some Bronx or Fenway intrigue that will attract listeners.  And even then, don't see a lot of people reaching out to former Sawx GM Chaim Bloom for his view on things.

other than the Cardinals.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Coach for the 2008 Tampa team that went to the WS. Coach for the 2016 Chicago Cubs team. Manager on the 2019 team. Davey absolutely has a job in MLB if he wants one

this. He's a bench coach someplace before 2027

[Slateman]

Please forgive me but what floundering RE empire? Yes, commercial RE is not great but Class A buildings are still making money and that is what the Lerners own. Residential RE that the Lerners own many communities have positive cash flow at the same rates as decades ago. The malls have suffered and White Flint is gone but it will be redeveloped. Tyson’s is holding its own. I think a lot of negative analysis stems from Ian Rubbish posts which are always negative.

https://hbr.org/2024/07/u-s-commercial-real-estate-is-headed-toward-a-crisis

Commercial RE is on the brink of collapse. Even with return to work, people simply aren't using those buildings enough.

[Slateman]

Rizzo attaching his fate to Davey is maybe he isn’t as smart as I gave him credit for. And the Lerners might as well be the family from Succession. Really hope they can sell soon.

Rizzo is loyal. He did the same thing for Dusty.

The Lerners have been able to sell anytime they wanted. They're choosing not to, largely because this is making them money.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

This should have happened around Memorial Day.
BTW -- Why all of a sudden is filthy language back in business on The Clubhouse threads?

I apologize about missing the original thread title. I do not disable the auto censor settings so miss language sometimes. That, and I was not on the site much yesterday or today, and just posted a bit in this thread.

[Mattionals]

Rizzo is loyal. He did the same thing for Dusty.

The Lerners have been able to sell anytime they wanted. They're choosing not to, largely because this is making them money.

If their value of the team is 3B, then we are basically the Pirates now. Never compete, get just enough talent to be "interesting" with certain players. Move those players for new players, Lather, Rinse, Repeat. We've been Nuttinged.

[tomterp]

But aren’t the Tysons malls their main anchors.  Those are still busy all the time.  Plus we know the rich often make most of their money off of investments.  There is no way they have not been making lots of money that way for the last ten years.

I'm not sure if "main anchors" is the appropriate concept.  As aspenbubba alluded to, they have office properties (weak market), residential (strong), retail (mixed bag, depends), sports & entertainment      hospitality, and a category they call "development".

https://lerner.com/portfolio/

[IanRubbish]

I think a lot of negative analysis stems from Ian Rubbish posts which are always negative.

Yes, I'm responsible for six straight losing seasons and the 2nd worst W-L pct in MLB since 2020.

It's no secret that commercial and retail real estate in general struggled after COVID, and played a role in the Lerners decision to dump salary in 2021, and to put the team up for sale.

[IanRubbish]

The Lerners have been able to sell anytime they wanted. They're choosing not to, largely because this is making them money.

And also because they're not getting an offer they like.   They announced they weren't selling as soon as the Orioles went for just $1.7 billion and set a low comp.

[blue911]

Please forgive me but what floundering RE empire? Yes, commercial RE is not great but Class A buildings are still making money and that is what the Lerners own. Residential RE that the Lerners own many communities have positive cash flow at the same rates as decades ago. The malls have suffered and White Flint is gone but it will be redeveloped. Tyson’s is holding its own. I think a lot of negative analysis stems from Ian Rubbish posts which are always negative.

I have a hard time with the owners owing $550m on a $450m purchase 19 years ago. Why do the owners need to be pulling out money if their other businesses are healthy?

[Slateman]

I think the Lerners used the team as leverage/collateral for their real estate holdings. I simply don't understand what else it could be. There is no way this team can generate 300+ million in revenuen and not be profitable.

[IanRubbish]

Svrluga on the Junkies this morning

[JCA-CrystalCity]

As for language in replies, I don't care as much if it is something the autocensor corrects. You only see something other than freaking, crap, or lollipop if you flip off the censor. Thread titles should be clean, regardless. I literally spent several minutes checking the thread title but could not turn off the censor.

[PowerBoater69]

As for language in replies, I don't care as much if it is something the autocensor corrects. You only see something other than freaking, crap, or lollipop if you flip off the censor. Thread titles should be clean, regardless. I literally spent several minutes checking the thread title but could not turn off the censor.

First GM fired in 16 years, I was shook, I went for the shocking topic line. I hope no children have been corrupted.

[jaycat]

My money is on Miguel Cairo being the next permanent manager

Peter Lorre?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

First GM fired in 16 years, I was shook, I went for the shocking topic line. I hope no children have been corrupted.

yah, right.