Fire Davey Martinez (2025)

[aspenbubba]

It's almost like a manager is beholden to the talent he has on the team. Almost.

Wasn’t it Casey Stengel who said the difference between a bad manager and a good manager is 10 games. You can only do so much with the roster you are given.

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

It's almost like a manager is beholden to the talent he has on the team. Almost.

I mean, he had talented rosters sandwiched between 2019 and still missed the playoffs both of those years. I don't think he should be an employee for life simply based on one improbable run.

[welch]

Did Davey save your life or are you a personal friend of his like Hickey and Coles?  Every time someone criticizes him you come up with these silly defensive responses.

Gee, I don't know Davey or the others. It's just that I have followed baseball closely since 1953, when Bucky Harris managed the Nationals, and then Chuck Dressen and Cookie Lvagetto as Calvin Griffith changed the name to "Senators". And onward. After spending a few years in Chicago, I've lived in New York, and paid close attention to Mets and Yanjees managers after the Expansion Senators slipped away to Dallas-Fort Worth. That's a lot of managers. Davey is pretty good. He did brilliantly in 2019, especially to get that pitching staff through the playoffs. And Davey had the Nats doing well in 2021 until it was found that Strasburg could not pitch so ownership had Rizzo begin the sell off.

Now Rizzo has constructed a team with better players than at any time since the first part of '21. Maybe they will fall apart. Maybe the starting pitching will shatter, and we know the bullpen still has a couple of no-hopers. Still, this seems a time to hope.

[readonly]

Gee, I don't know Davey or the others. It's just that I have followed baseball closely since 1953.....

Dang, that's a heck of a run!  Me only since 2021 when I burned out on the NFL.  Although I always watched the WS since I was a kid.

[Slateman]

Welch was there when they used to play by lamp oil light

[Smithian]

Gee, I don't know Davey or the others. It's just that I have followed baseball closely since 1953, when Bucky Harris managed the Nationals, and then Chuck Dressen and Cookie Lvagetto as Calvin Griffith changed the name to "Senators". And onward. After spending a few years in Chicago, I've lived in New York, and paid close attention to Mets and Yanjees managers after the Expansion Senators slipped away to Dallas-Fort Worth. That's a lot of managers. Davey is pretty good. He did brilliantly in 2019, especially to get that pitching staff through the playoffs. And Davey had the Nats doing well in 2021 until it was found that Strasburg could not pitch so ownership had Rizzo begin the sell off.

Now Rizzo has constructed a team with better players than at any time since the first part of '21. Maybe they will fall apart. Maybe the starting pitching will shatter, and we know the bullpen still has a couple of no-hopers. Still, this seems a time to hope.

welch is off the leash!

[Kevrock]

Did Davey save your life or are you a personal friend of his like Hickey and Coles?  Every time someone criticizes him you come up with these silly defensive responses.

No, am I not allowed to call you on your posts? You parade around calling him a loser while we’re on a winning streak and then launch into ad hominem attacks when I poke back.

It’s not silly or defensive to point out that we’re outperforming PECOTA by a wide margin. But if you think managers should be fired when we’re underperforming by a bit you should have some better reasoning when we’re overperforming. I think it’s all silly, the coaching ain’t the problem in DC. My stance on this is consistent and I’ve pushed back in the “fire the coaches” threads for like a decade.

[blue911]

Wasn’t it Casey Stengel who said the difference between a bad manager and a good manager is 10 games. You can only do so much with the roster you are given.

Warren Spahn’s quote about playing from Stengel before and after he was a genius (Braves and Mets) is still spot on.

[IanRubbish]

Two particular issues persist with Davey even as the team is playing better.  Near the bottom in defensive runs saved with the worst infield numbers, some of this is the result of his platoons.  Other issue is telling everyone, particularly CJ, not to pull the ball.  I get the "hit to all fields" philosophy but not everyone in James Wood.  It ends up messing with hitters and leading to weaker contact.

[welch]

Two particular issues persist with Davey even as the team is playing better.  Near the bottom in defensive runs saved with the worst infield numbers, some of this is the result of his platoons.  Other issue is telling everyone, particularly CJ, not to pull the ball.  I get the "hit to all fields" philosophy but not everyone in James Wood.  It ends up messing with hitters and leading to weaker contact.

- How much of the bad infielding and low DRS is Tena? CJ seems rangy and has a strong arm, but gets sloppy. Like that throw last night. Maybe House will improve over Tena, and maybe, meanwhile, Nassim should give CJ a rest now and again. Any numbers on which plays pull down the DRS?

- I lean toward "gap-to-gap" hitting. With batters pulling the ball when the situation fits, but not necessarily going to the plate looking to pull.

[Slateman]

- How much of the bad infielding and low DRS is Tena? CJ seems rangy and has a strong arm, but gets sloppy. Like that throw last night. Maybe House will improve over Tena, and maybe, meanwhile, Nassim should give CJ a rest now and again. Any numbers on which plays pull down the DRS?

- I lean toward "gap-to-gap" hitting. With batters pulling the ball when the situation fits, but not necessarily going to the plate looking to pull.

We don't have good fielders. Not sure how Davey is supposed to magically turn Rosario, Tena, Abrams, Wood, and Ruiz into good fielders.

[Kevrock]

He can’t, this isn’t Little League.

[varoadking]

...this isn’t Little League.

You sure about that?   

[IanRubbish]

He can’t, this isn’t Little League.

He can stop the excessive lefty-righty platooning which is hurting the infield D, and he can stop playing Keibert so much. 

[Smithian]

He can stop the excessive lefty-righty platooning which is hurting the infield D, and he can stop playing Keibert so much. 

I'm not sure if there is any substantive difference in Rosario and Nunez starting versus Garcia and Tena.

I agree on Ruiz.

[Smithian]

We don't have good fielders. Not sure how Davey is supposed to magically turn Rosario, Tena, Abrams, Wood, and Ruiz into good fielders.

The defense looked solid early when it was DeJong at 3B and Wood was mixing in at DH and give Nats a Young-Crews-Call OF.

Once Bell is off, a Tena move to DH and Brady House at 3B would fix a lot of problems. And James Wood simply has to start looking better* or it is time for him to start taking pregame grounders at 1B.



*Admittedly, Fangraphs doesn't hate his defense nearly as much it did in 2024, so that should be tracked as sample size increases.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

He can stop the excessive lefty-righty platooning which is hurting the infield D, and he can stop playing Keibert so much. 

sorry, but I don't see the defense as impacted by the platooning. CJ and Lowe don't platoon. Garcia gets most starts vs lhp, and, frankly, the d is better when Nunez plays. It's more rest than platoon when LGjr is benched. The only real platoon is at 3rd. You could argue Tena's D might be better with full-time reps, but you give up your best righty hitter when you don't get Rosario in

[IanRubbish]

sorry, but I don't see the defense as impacted by the platooning. CJ and Lowe don't platoon. Garcia gets most starts vs lhp, and, frankly, the d is better when Nunez plays. It's more rest than platoon when LGjr is benched. The only real platoon is at 3rd. You could argue Tena's D might be better with full-time reps, but you give up your best righty hitter when you don't get Rosario in

Right, and 1B is the only infield spot where the Nats aren't bottom 10 in DRS.  Moreover, of their -49 run differential, -21 comes from DRS.   This team is currently in its 4th straight year of being bottom 6 in DRS. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Garcia, CJ, and 3rd are bad. Garcia might be awful.

There's no easy fix to the middle infield. Replacing a         regular but there's no internal MI solution above Seaver  King, and he isn't ready. Replacing Ruiz might be more important.

[GataNats]

Tena is the black hole

[imref]

Davey got 0 votes from 121 players for the manager they'd most like to play for (Bochy won).

On the positive side, he also got 0 votes from 40 players for the manager they'd least like to play for (Black was first)

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

Davey got 0 votes from 121 players for the manager they'd most like to play for (Bochy won).

On the positive side, he also got 0 votes from 40 players for the manager they'd least like to play for (Black was first)

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/

You mean being on a team coached by a loser isn't what most players want?

[Kevrock]

Davey got 0 votes from 121 players for the manager they'd most like to play for (Bochy won).

On the positive side, he also got 0 votes from 40 players for the manager they'd least like to play for (Black was first)

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/

This is wrong. He got one vote, along with several others. It’s in the link you posted.

[imref]

This is wrong. He got one vote, along with several others. It’s in the link you posted.

you are right, one vote for playing for. They had him as “Dave” Martinez and I missed it.

[imref]

If we lose both this and the Rockies series Davey has to be on the hot seat.