Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025

[varoadking]

Completely disagree: Lowe was a huge improvement over Meneses, Crews in RF, Wood from day 1 in LF, no Corbin, DeJong at third. All, on paper at least, appeared to be big improvements from last year.

Compare the 2019 roster to the 2025 roster and tell me that you expected good things in 2025.

Lowe and DeJong were classic Rizzo dumpster dives, as was bringing Bell back.  A lot of faith was put in a kid that hasn't panned out yet...and don't even talk about the bullpen.

Not to mention they brought back the same dimwit manager and coaching staff...

Look at the pre-season projections...nobody here had them as a .500 team...and even you, the grand poohbah of the SSS, only predicted 77 wins.  What exactly do you view as a "huge improvement?"

Sorry...nobody should have expected a big improvement with this trash roster...fans just didn't think they'd be this bad...

[Slateman]

First off, the front office talked about taking a step forward throughout the whole offseason. And it was talked about quite a bit how losing Corbin was addition by subtraction.

Lowe wasn't dumpster diving. He was still an above average bat for 1B over the last two seasons, which would have been a significant improvement over what Washington had put on the field in 2023 and 2024. I have no idea what is going on, but he clearly is struggling with moving to another city. Hopefully he rebounds next year in his contract year.

DeJong and Bell were. I had assumed they were just caretakers until someone from the minors was ready to take the job. If Crews is healthy, I actually think Bell is DFA'd already, and they just go with some sort of rotation at DH with Chapparo, Lile, and Wood. I think that's probably when the facade really started to crack. Especially when the story came out that ownership overruled Rizzo in free agency on the Christian Walker deal. And I don't think expecting a league average bat out of Crews is "putting a lot of faith in the kid."

I don't think anyone was talking about big improvements. Most people were expecting to get into the 75-78 win range.  That's a pretty huge improvement for a team that hasn't gotten above 71 in a while. 

Oh and Smithian is the grand poohbah of the SSS.

[Mattionals]

I think many of us wanted to be realistic. I figured this year should be the 2011 of our rebuild and by not getting a free agent of name sunk that idea. I think we are sitting in 2010 again. This time though, I'm hopeful we just double down on the kids and just roll with them after the ASB.

Wood, CJ, Garcia, Crews, Hassell, House, and Lile need to be out there in some capacity every day. Gore is our ace, Irvin and Parker are quality BOR starters. This team still has its needs in the rotation, bullpen, and at catcher. I'd rather draft a fast moving pitcher to signify doubling down on this core rather than just punting onto the next core by drafting a guy 4 years away.

We all know the Lerner family needs to go, and it's obvious now that the entire FO should go with them.

[aspenbubba]

I don't think anyone was talking about big improvements. Most people were expecting to get into the 75-78 win range.  That's a pretty huge improvement for a team that hasn't gotten above 71 in a while. 

 

Well, I did predict 69 wins in the prediction thread and on April 15 in the Duck and Cover thread I stated that we would miss that mark by at least 5 games. I don't believe that anyone could have anticipated an 11 game losing streak preceded by a 7 game losing streak in early May.  The silence from ownership is deafening.

[imref]

First off, the front office talked about taking a step forward throughout the whole offseason. And it was talked about quite a bit how losing Corbin was addition by subtraction.

Lowe wasn't dumpster diving. He was still an above average bat for 1B over the last two seasons, which would have been a significant improvement over what Washington had put on the field in 2023 and 2024. I have no idea what is going on, but he clearly is struggling with moving to another city. Hopefully he rebounds next year in his contract year.

DeJong and Bell were. I had assumed they were just caretakers until someone from the minors was ready to take the job. If Crews is healthy, I actually think Bell is DFA'd already, and they just go with some sort of rotation at DH with Chapparo, Lile, and Wood. I think that's probably when the facade really started to crack. Especially when the story came out that ownership overruled Rizzo in free agency on the Christian Walker deal. And I don't think expecting a league average bat out of Crews is "putting a lot of faith in the kid."

I don't think anyone was talking about big improvements. Most people were expecting to get into the 75-78 win range.  That's a pretty huge improvement for a team that hasn't gotten above 71 in a while. 

Oh and Smithian is the grand poohbah of the SSS.

agree with all of this, especially about Smithian

[imref]

Look at the pre-season projections...nobody here had them as a .500 team...and even you, the grand poohbah of the SSS, only predicted 77 wins.  What exactly do you view as a "huge improvement?"

Go back and re-read what I posted. I wrote that "Lowe was a huge improvement over Meneses", I didn't say that the 2025 team was a huge improvement.

Lowe was a career >.750 OPS batter with a .762 OPS in 2024 and a .775 in 2023. Meneses had posted a .611 OPS when he got DFA'd. So yeah, on paper, Lowe starting the year at 1B was a huge improvement over Meneses.

Lowe has still been better than what we were getting out of Meneses (.685 OPS so far this year), but he's down below his career average.

[Smithian]

First off, the front office talked about taking a step forward throughout the whole offseason. And it was talked about quite a bit how losing Corbin was addition by subtraction.

Lowe wasn't dumpster diving. He was still an above average bat for 1B over the last two seasons, which would have been a significant improvement over what Washington had put on the field in 2023 and 2024. I have no idea what is going on, but he clearly is struggling with moving to another city. Hopefully he rebounds next year in his contract year.

DeJong and Bell were. I had assumed they were just caretakers until someone from the minors was ready to take the job. If Crews is healthy, I actually think Bell is DFA'd already, and they just go with some sort of rotation at DH with Chapparo, Lile, and Wood. I think that's probably when the facade really started to crack. Especially when the story came out that ownership overruled Rizzo in free agency on the Christian Walker deal. And I don't think expecting a league average bat out of Crews is "putting a lot of faith in the kid."

I don't think anyone was talking about big improvements. Most people were expecting to get into the 75-78 win range.  That's a pretty huge improvement for a team that hasn't gotten above 71 in a while. 

Oh and Smithian is the grand poohbah of the SSS.

I am like Walter Cronkite diagnosing the Vietnam War; it brings me no joy to declare this Nats season lost, but it is necessary. Sunshine requires clear eyed realism when the situation becomes dire.

Success this season was feeling a bit frisky at the deadline and then playing meaningful games into the back third of the season. Neither is happening this season.

[varoadking]

My work here is done...carry on...

[IanRubbish]

I was on the 76 win bandwagon, I thought the bats would improve, and they have slightly.  But when you have a very mismanaged and dysfunctional org, solving problems in one area leads to new problems elsewhere.  And elsewhere was the bullpen, and will be something else next year.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I thought this team was a real 71 win team last year after playing above their heads to get to 71 wins in 2023. I thought this year's team had a lot of addition by subtraction, removing negative performers like Senzel, LF pre-Wood, and 1B and bringing mostly guys who were average or even replacement level in the case of 3rd. I also thought we'd get some sort of dead cat bounce out catcher. What we got was negative performance out of much of the rotation, continued bad play at 3rd, Crews not delivering like expected, Young not playable offensively and Garcia close to unplayable defensively.

[Slateman]

The problem is you replaced a competent bullpen with a terrible one, and Corbin with two Corbins

[Natsinpwc]

Was listening last night and Charlie and Dave were flabbergasted by the mistakes.  I know we won but this team just can't afford the sloppy play. Specifically they had no idea why CJ gave himself up when Young scored.  They said no way the weak OF arm throws out Young with two outs.  Wade I think.  Needed to wait until the ball went through the cut off.  Took the bat out of Wood's hands with a runner on.  Then in the bottom of the inning Young throws home for a guy he has no chance at and allows the batter to advance to second.  It's nice to hear some criticism since we don't get it on the TV broadcast.  Time for a change in the manager and a whole new staff after the season.  The team pays no attention to these coaches.  It's country club atmosphere on a losing team. 

[IanRubbish]

Was listening last night and Charlie and Dave were flabbergasted by the mistakes.  I know we won but this team just can't afford the sloppy play. Specifically they had no idea why CJ gave himself up when Young scored.  They said no way the weak OF arm throws out Young with two outs.  Wade I think.  Needed to wait until the ball went through the cut off.  Took the bat out of Wood's hands with a runner on.  Then in the bottom of the inning Young throws home for a guy he has no chance at and allows the batter to advance to second.  It's nice to hear some criticism since we don't get it on the TV broadcast.  Time for a change in the manager and a whole new staff after the season.  The team pays no attention to these coaches.  It's country club atmosphere on a losing team.

Very good points.  This team needs more than some new faces on the field, it has a weak culture that tolerates poor play in the field, on the bases, and from the bullpen.  It's been that way for years and it keeps getting worse.

[aspenbubba]

Was listening last night and Charlie and Dave were flabbergasted by the mistakes.  I know we won but this team just can't afford the sloppy play. Specifically they had no idea why CJ gave himself up when Young scored.  They said no way the weak OF arm throws out Young with two outs.  Wade I think.  Needed to wait until the ball went through the cut off.  Took the bat out of Wood's hands with a runner on.  Then in the bottom of the inning Young throws home for a guy he has no chance at and allows the batter to advance to second.  It's nice to hear some criticism since we don't get it on the TV broadcast.  Time for a change in the manager and a whole new staff after the season.  The team pays no attention to these coaches.  It's country club atmosphere on a losing team. 

We seem to keep pointing out the sloppy play, mental errors and baserunning mistakes and blaming the coaches and ultimately the manager. They certainly bear some responsibility but what are the coaches and mangers doing or more likely NOT doing in the minors. It's not like the game has changed dramatically since these guys were playing Little League. Every situation should almost be rote at this stage of their professional careers. These, for the most part, are coddled overpaid athletes.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

We seem to keep pointing out the sloppy play, mental errors and baserunning mistakes and blaming the coaches and ultimately the manager. They certainly bear some responsibility but what are the coaches and mangers doing or more likely NOT doing in the minors. It's not like the game has changed dramatically since these guys were playing Little League. Every situation should almost be rote at this stage of their professional careers. These, for the most part, are coddled overpaid athletes.

I agree that there's too much tolerance for bad decision-making and that it probably goes through the lower levels to the mlb club. The only other thing is that I don't see vet FAs as much better than the system guys.

[Natsinpwc]

We seem to keep pointing out the sloppy play, mental errors and baserunning mistakes and blaming the coaches and ultimately the manager. They certainly bear some responsibility but what are the coaches and mangers doing or more likely NOT doing in the minors. It's not like the game has changed dramatically since these guys were playing Little League. Every situation should almost be rote at this stage of their professional careers. These, for the most part, are coddled overpaid athletes.

Sure. Good reason to clean house after the season including Rizzo. 

[Slateman]

Sure. Good reason to clean house after the season including Rizzo. 

Except ownership will use it as an excuse to cut costs. So we will fully become the Pirates or Athletics.

[Natsinpwc]

Except ownership will use it as an excuse to cut costs. So we will fully become the Pirates or Athletics.

Probably. 

[RobDibblesGhost]

With June finally almost over, the 2025 Nats are only the third team since 1901 to fail to win consecutive games in a calendar month.

[skippy1999]

Sure. Good reason to clean house after the season including Rizzo. 

Put them both out of our misery now. also Rizzo shouldn't touch another draft, I don't care if they draw straws to see who gets picked but it should not be that washed up hack's choice, not anymore.

[IanRubbish]

Put them both out of our misery now. also Rizzo shouldn't touch another draft, I don't care if they draw straws to see who gets picked but it should not be that washed up hack's choice, not anymore.

The Lerners gave the league's worst drafting and development GM a bobblehead night last year.  They don't care what he does with the roster as long as he doesn't ask for too much payroll and keeps flinging their BS to the media.  Even better when he shows disdain for paying fans.

[varoadking]

Put them both out of our misery now. also Rizzo shouldn't touch another draft, I don't care if they draw straws to see who gets picked but it should not be that washed up hack's choice, not anymore.

Tell us how you really feel, Skippy... 

[imref]

Via Jay Cuda:

Have you had a worse June than the Rockies and the White Sox (both 10-16)?

[OfftheBat]

Via Jay Cuda:

Have you had a worse June than the Rockies and the White Sox (both 10-16)?

Should we laugh or cry... ? 😭😭

[skippy1999]

Tell us how you really feel, Skippy... 

I am SO over Rizzo and his inability to construct a decent team it's infuriating! I love Davey I mean he's got to go but I have no ill will towards him but Rizzo?? He stinks and he sucks and then he stinks some more