Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025

[skippy1999]

Should we laugh or cry... ? 😭😭

Why not both? ugh I miss being a good fun exciting team I really do 

[OfftheBat]

Why not both? ugh I miss being a good fun exciting team I really do 

Same here 
Hopefully they will re-become an NL East powerhouse in my lifetime.

[IanRubbish]

3.5 games out of 4th place now, worst run differential in the NL besides the Rockies

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

When do the Mackenzie Gore trade rumors start?

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

I am SO over Rizzo and his inability to construct a decent team it's infuriating! I love Davey I mean he's got to go but I have no ill will towards him but Rizzo?? He stinks and he sucks and then he stinks some more

The team becoming what it is now totally coincides with Mark taking over. The Rizzo hate is well and fine but you aren’t going to find someone better with an owner who refuses to spend. Mark turned down the Christian Walker deal. I have no clue what anyone is going to fix here while Mark owns the team? Firing Davey and Rizzo is nothing more than shuffling deck chairs on the titanic as long as Mark is still the final decision maker.

[IanRubbish]

The team becoming what it is now totally coincides with Mark taking over. The Rizzo hate is well and fine but you aren’t going to find someone better with an owner who refuses to spend. Mark turned down the Christian Walker deal. I have no clue what anyone is going to fix here while Mark owns the team? Firing Davey and Rizzo is nothing more than shuffling deck chairs on the titanic as long as Mark is still the final decision maker.

I agree somewhat.  Rizzo has zero accountability and it shows.  Yes, a new GM will still have to "play the contract" and deal with little Lerner budgets, but would at least be ever so slightly accountable for winning. 

[IanRubbish]

Even the Marlins paid for a Trajekt Arc machine.

https://www.mlb.com/news/miami-marlins-use-revolutionary-trajekt-arc-hitting-machine

[IanRubbish]

Nats pitchers are now 29th in overall ERA at 5.24. 

[imref]

Cardinals last 15:
- vs Nats: 2-1
- vs Everyone Else: 2-10

[welch]

This team is worse than 1959, and the early Expansion Senators, and someof this early New Nationals teams. Dead.

[IanRubbish]

Also see sunshine in that very few fans are still buying into the rebuild/reboot/retool propaganda.  It was obviously a salary dump that began in '21, combined with a GM who had no clue, and a manager who thought his job was to hire cronies.  The worst were some of the FB Kool-Aid drinkers who would literally regurgitate Lerner/Rizzo nonsense about doing this "the right way" and "not being like the Phillies or Padres", who've been filling their stadiums ever since. 

Our fans are still too passive, and would be great to see more "Sell the Team" at Nats Park, but fans have played a part in the last six years of misery by falling too easily for Lerner excuses.  The exasperation with ownership is a good thing.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Too cute.

[nobleisthyname]

Also see sunshine in that very few fans are still buying into the rebuild/reboot/retool propaganda.  It was obviously a salary dump that began in '21, combined with a GM who had no clue, and a manager who thought his job was to hire cronies.  The worst were some of the FB Kool-Aid drinkers who would literally regurgitate Lerner/Rizzo nonsense about doing this "the right way" and "not being like the Phillies or Padres", who've been filling their stadiums ever since. 

Our fans are still too passive, and would be great to see more "Sell the Team" at Nats Park, but fans have played a part in the last six years of misery by falling too easily for Lerner excuses.  The exasperation with ownership is a good thing.

Still not a fan of denigrating fellow fans just rooting for the team. Keep the vitriol directed at ownership and the front office.

[IanRubbish]

Still not a fan of denigrating fellow fans just rooting for the team. Keep the vitriol directed at ownership and the front office.

Blindly falling for owner/front office propaganda makes things worse.  Was definitely a problem with this fanbase in the early 20s, and it does not happen in other large markets.  It allows the Lerners to treat fans like rows in a spreadsheet, not people who deserve to be entertained properly. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I'd say the surprising 2023 immediately following the Soto trade, with the 2023 draft of Crews and Sykora, led people to think that the moves in 2021 and 2022 were working. The early start to 2024, where they hung around .500 into mid-June, also gave it a positive vibe. It's only become apparent that a lot of that was a mirage since the middle of last year.

[varoadking]

I'd say the surprising 2023 immediately following the Soto trade, with the 2023 draft of Crews and Sykora, led people to think that the moves in 2021 and 2022 were working. The early start to 2024, where they hung around .500 into mid-June, also gave it a positive vibe. It's only become apparent that a lot of that was a mirage since the middle of last year.

It'd be easy to say things would have been different if they hadn't won a WS in 2019, albeit in a fluke, but honestly, it was Covid that determined this teams recent history.  The Lerner's didn't make as much money as they had hoped since then and had to turn a potential contender into a laughing stock.  They used 2019 as cover for their scheme.  We'd be where we are with or without the WS piece of metal.

Both Rizzo and dave were simply shills for the Owners.  That was their greatest contribution to the organization.  They stepped on their dick big time this year though when they proclaimed this was going to be a winning team again.  They took the BS too far...not that they hadn't before...but it finally became apparent to a larger audience.  I also think Crews not becoming the second coming of Royce had something to do with Rizzo getting the ax...

[Smithian]

Still not a fan of denigrating fellow fans just rooting for the team. Keep the vitriol directed at ownership and the front office.

I laughed at that post.

I find joy in sports. I didn’t as a kid, now I do. Wins are fun, losses are just a game. If someone wants to say I’m doing it wrong, they can. But I’m happy my outlook on sports is wins are fun, losses are “get them tomorrow”

[Smithian]

It'd be easy to say things would have been different if they hadn't won a WS in 2019, albeit in a fluke, but honestly, it was Covid that determined this teams recent history.  The Lerner's didn't make as much money as they had hoped since then and had to turn a potential contender into a laughing stock.  They used 2019 as cover for their scheme.  We'd be where we are with or without the WS piece of metal.

Both Rizzo and dave were simply shills for the Owners.  That was their greatest contribution to the organization.  They stepped on their dick big time this year though when they proclaimed this was going to be a winning team again.  They took the BS too far...not that they hadn't before...but it finally became apparent to a larger audience.  I also think Crews not becoming the second coming of Royce had something to do with Rizzo getting the ax...

I think their greatest contribution was a World Series Championship, but to each their own

[IanRubbish]

I think their greatest contribution was a World Series Championship, but to each their own

Followed by 5.5 years of the 2nd to worst record in baseball, careless play on the field, and one busted draft pick after another.  As Tom Petty said - Even the losers get lucky sometimes.

[imref]

Followed by 5.5 years of the 2nd to worst record in baseball, careless play on the field, and one busted draft pick after another.  As Tom Petty said - Even the losers get lucky sometimes.

2019 was the year we got lucky. We had much better teams in previous years of our 2012-19 run.

[Smithian]

Followed by 5.5 years of the 2nd to worst record in baseball, careless play on the field, and one busted draft pick after another.  As Tom Petty said - Even the losers get lucky sometimes.

Well, yes, but losing seasons don’t count as “greatest” contribution, you big silly!

That was “worst” or “most common”

[bluestreak]

This conversation is Fascinating:

1) The idea that the 2019 Nats were lucky or a fluke is kinda crazy. After the first 50 games they played at a .660 clip, the equivalent of the Dodgers and Astros that year. Their pythagorean record was 5 games better than their actual record and their Championship odds on 12.1 percent on Oct 1. They had three starters in the top 11 of CY Young voting and 4 players get MVP votes. They beat 2 105 win teams in the playoffs and stomped the Cards in the NLCS on the way to the championship. This was a really, really good team.

2) But even if you want to say they were lucky, so what? Winning a championship involves a large degree of luck. The idea is to give your team as many chances so you can take advantage of the luck when it hits you. And as far as that is concerned, Rizzo did a great job. The Nats won the second most games in the majors in the 2010's and were perennial contenders. Rizzo positioned the team for its eventual championship.

3) The idea that the Nats won in 2019 in spite of Martinez is ridiculous. Recovering after a disastrous start took good managing as did navigating the entire playoffs without a functioning bullpen. I think Davey is kinda dumb, but he did a good job.

4) It's kinda weird how folks think that the fans have some obligation to be mad at the owners or management or are somehow complicit in the team being bad if they aren't constantly complaining. There is enough in my life to be upset about. I follow baseball because it's fun. If the team is bad, I still like going to games, having a beer and eating a hot dog outside. If we win great, it's a bonus. But spending my energy being upset over things I can't control? I will leave that to others.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Along Bluestreak's points, you could probably make a better case that Davey Johnson was past his prime, Matt Williams was a travesty, and Dusty had some bad breaks and slow reactions in the playoffs than you can criticizing Martinez's handling of 2019. Worst you could say is, with that talent, they never should have been 19-31. Now, I'd take Dusty probably over all of them, especially as a regular season manager, and I think Davey ended up with maybe the worst set of coaches and he exhausted his ability to get the players to improve, but he handled a veteran, high talent team pretty well. This is not a veteran, high talent team, so he had to go, maybe years ago, along with the p-poor coaching staff. That said, this is a LOD thread, so it's ok to focus on how ineffective he was.

As for Mr. Rizzo, if the stat is right that the nats minor leagues the last 3 seasons were in the bottom 3 in xwOBA offensively and K%-BB% pitching, then that's true LOD performance.

[Smithian]

This conversation is Fascinating:

1) The idea that the 2019 Nats were lucky or a fluke is kinda crazy. After the first 50 games they played at a .660 clip, the equivalent of the Dodgers and Astros that year. Their pythagorean record was 5 games better than their actual record and their Championship odds on 12.1 percent on Oct 1. They had three starters in the top 11 of CY Young voting and 4 players get MVP votes. They beat 2 105 win teams in the playoffs and stomped the Cards in the NLCS on the way to the championship. This was a really, really good team.

2) But even if you want to say they were lucky, so what? Winning a championship involves a large degree of luck. The idea is to give your team as many chances so you can take advantage of the luck when it hits you. And as far as that is concerned, Rizzo did a great job. The Nats won the second most games in the majors in the 2010's and were perennial contenders. Rizzo positioned the team for its eventual championship.

3) The idea that the Nats won in 2019 in spite of Martinez is ridiculous. Recovering after a disastrous start took good managing as did navigating the entire playoffs without a functioning bullpen. I think Davey is kinda dumb, but he did a good job.

4) It's kinda weird how folks think that the fans have some obligation to be mad at the owners or management or are somehow complicit in the team being bad if they aren't constantly complaining. There is enough in my life to be upset about. I follow baseball because it's fun. If the team is bad, I still like going to games, having a beer and eating a hot dog outside. If we win great, it's a bonus. But spending my energy being upset over things I can't control? I will leave that to others.

#1 - #3 is fair for an LoD thread

#4 makes me laugh a bit. As a kid, I did live and die with every game. As I did as a young adult. The older I've gotten, the more I have fun with it.

I think it was the 2012 calendar year that sort of broke me. RGIII injury with the Redskins. Game 5 for the Nationals. I loved that Dale Hunter team that ambushed Boston in Round 1 then had a 2-1 lead on Rangers. DC United had that wild snow playoff matchup versus NY then lost in Conference Finals. My college teams had stunning levels of failure.

At that point, I think it was I learned to enjoy the highs and brush away the lows.

[imref]

My point in saying that the 2019 team was lucky is that they weren't as good as some of the earlier teams, and everything seemed to break our way that year from the RF error in the WC, to Roberts' horrible managing, to Howie's shot off the foul pole on a golf shot.

Yes, they were talented, but arguably not as good as the Dodgers or Astros, whom we beat that year.