Author Topic: Crash at DCA  (Read 2173 times)

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Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2025, 12:05:31 pm »
I turned on the tv and saw Nancy Kerrigan crying. Deja vu all over again.
ironically Tonya Harding announced her return to social media earlier in the day of the crash.

Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2025, 12:06:28 pm »
i thought the crash occurred before 9 PM?
it did, probably misreporting the time.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2025, 01:07:20 pm »
My daughter and I had just met one of the ice skaters on Thursday. We were just at an appointment waiting and the kids started talked about ice skating and the new rec center that is almost done. The girl was excited to go to nationals and just super happy in general. My daughter saw the pictures of some of the skater at school yesterday and she was one of them

Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2025, 01:20:27 pm »
My daughter and I had just met one of the ice skaters on Thursday. We were just at an appointment waiting and the kids started talked about ice skating and the new rec center that is almost done. The girl was excited to go to nationals and just super happy in general. My daughter saw the pictures of some of the skater at school yesterday and she was one of them
I'm sorry. That's just awful.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2025, 01:25:39 pm »
I’m shaken, she had lots of tears last night

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2025, 01:27:18 pm »
I turned on the tv and saw Nancy Kerrigan crying. Deja vu all over again.
she's got to be in her mid-50s now. could still probably skate rings around half the NHL.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2025, 01:31:39 pm »
My daughter and I had just met one of the ice skaters on Thursday. We were just at an appointment waiting and the kids started talked about ice skating and the new rec center that is almost done. The girl was excited to go to nationals and just super happy in general. My daughter saw the pictures of some of the skater at school yesterday and she was one of them
so sorry. Such an awful twist of fate. This is one of those times thoughts and prayers really do matter.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2025, 02:37:11 pm »
she's got to be in her mid-50s now. could still probably skate rings around half the NHL.
But could she drop the gloves? Tonya could for sure.

Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2025, 03:31:37 pm »
ABC reported that the ATC allotment for DCA is 28 controllers. They have 25 fully-trained full-time on staff, and 3 in training, so lack of staffing doesn't appear to be an issue (though other reporting posted earlier says that the union wanted 30 slots).

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2025, 03:44:56 pm »
ABC reported that the ATC allotment for DCA is 28 controllers. They have 25 fully-trained full-time on staff, and 3 in training, so lack of staffing doesn't appear to be an issue (though other reporting posted earlier says that the union wanted 30 slots).
From the other posts seems someone was sent home. Sick? I’m still confused.  Tower or terminal approach control. They’re different or at least they used to be.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2025, 03:29:45 pm »
The NTSB just held a press briefing. Among the new information:
- Helicopter pilots were wearing night vision goggles
- Instructor pointed out that they were too high (248' at time of impact, allowed ceiling was 200').  They are considering the possibility of a malfunctioning altimeter on the helicopter.
- Helicopter pilots may not have heard the control tower instruction to pass behind the CRJ because they were trying to transmit at the same time
- Blackhawk crew thought they were told to turn left.
-

Offline Copecwby20

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2025, 11:18:58 am »
I have a buddy that's an ATC and from what he told me, they were told to make visual contact with with a specific pilot and get in behind it. The blackhawk pilot identified the the second plane in line and while turning left to loop around it flew into the flight path of the first one.


For those who haven't run under night vision, your field of view is SEVERELY limited. One tube is ok for things link dicking around in the woods but if you are driving you need at least two to maintain depth perception, but even then your FOV is bad. The PNVG-18s or "quad NODs" made famous by movies like Zero Dark Thirty were originally meant to provide panoramic night vision capability but they are very expensive. I doubt a run of the mill aviation battalion would have them. They are typically reserved for Tier 1 units or the 160th SOAR.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2025, 11:29:47 am »
I have a buddy that's an ATC and from what he told me, they were told to make visual contact with with a specific pilot and get in behind it. The blackhawk pilot identified the the second plane in line and while turning left to loop around it flew into the flight path of the first one.


For those who haven't run under night vision, your field of view is SEVERELY limited. One tube is ok for things link dicking around in the woods but if you are driving you need at least two to maintain depth perception, but even then your FOV is bad. The PNVG-18s or "quad NODs" made famous by movies like Zero Dark Thirty were originally meant to provide panoramic night vision capability but they are very expensive. I doubt a run of the mill aviation battalion would have them. They are typically reserved for Tier 1 units or the 160th SOAR.

The settlements they will end up paying would have covered the upgraded googles across all of the Belvoir and Andrew’s helicopters a hundred fold

Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2025, 12:17:31 pm »
I've read that a lot of flights are now being put into holding patterns or are being diverted to Dulles when VIPs need to fly by helicopter along the Potomac. Driving home Tuesday night I noticed a ton of planes overhead and looked at flightradar24 to see many in holding patterns that were destined for DCA. I assume Trump's speech at the Capitol created flight routing issues.

Offline machpost

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2025, 03:10:01 pm »
I live very close to that area and prior to this incident the amount of helicopter traffic was getting to be obnoxious. Aside from events such as Tuseday night's address at the Capitol, traffic is WAY down lately.

Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2026, 03:58:14 pm »
Final report is out. A primary contributor is that the helicopter's altimeter was off by 100' and so they were 100' higher than they thought they were flying.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA25MA108.aspx

Offline varoadking

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2026, 04:06:54 pm »
Final report is out. A primary contributor is that the helicopter's altimeter was off by 100' and so they were 100' higher than they thought they were flying.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA25MA108.aspx

Amazed that's the best BS they could come up with...

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2026, 04:59:20 pm »
Here’s what the summary says.

“The NTSB determines that the probable cause of this accident was the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) placement of a helicopter route in close proximity to a runway approach path; their failure to regularly review and evaluate helicopter routes and available data, and their failure to act on recommendations to mitigate the risk of a midair collision near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA); as well as the air traffic system’s overreliance on visual separation in order to promote efficient traffic flow without consideration for the limitations of the see-and-avoid concept. Also causal was the lack of effective pilot-applied visual separation by the helicopter crew, which resulted in a midair collision. Additional causal factors were the tower team’s loss of situation awareness and degraded performance due to the high workload of the combined helicopter and local control positions and the absence of a risk assessment process to identify and mitigate real-time operational risk factors, which resulted in misprioritization of duties, inadequate traffic advisories, and the lack of safety alerts to both flight crews. Also causal was the Army’s failure to ensure pilots were aware of the effects of error tolerances on barometric altimeters in their helicopters, which resulted in the crew flying above the maximum published helicopter route altitude.”

You just cited the last thing listed. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2026, 06:15:04 pm »
Here’s what the summary says.

“The NTSB determines that the probable cause of this accident was the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) placement of a helicopter route in close proximity to a runway approach path; their failure to regularly review and evaluate helicopter routes and available data, and their failure to act on recommendations to mitigate the risk of a midair collision near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA); as well as the air traffic system’s overreliance on visual separation in order to promote efficient traffic flow without consideration for the limitations of the see-and-avoid concept. Also causal was the lack of effective pilot-applied visual separation by the helicopter crew, which resulted in a midair collision. Additional causal factors were the tower team’s loss of situation awareness and degraded performance due to the high workload of the combined helicopter and local control positions and the absence of a risk assessment process to identify and mitigate real-time operational risk factors, which resulted in misprioritization of duties, inadequate traffic advisories, and the lack of safety alerts to both flight crews. Also causal was the Army’s failure to ensure pilots were aware of the effects of error tolerances on barometric altimeters in their helicopters, which resulted in the crew flying above the maximum published helicopter route altitude.”

You just cited the last thing listed. 

The red language is the root cause. the last sentence was the immediate cause but the root cause made the immediate / proximate cause possible.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2026, 06:57:26 pm »
Are they pretending the FAA can say no?

Offline imref

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2026, 08:43:04 pm »
Are they pretending the FAA can say no?

The NTSB can only make recommendations, the FAA makes the rules.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2026, 09:00:56 pm »
The NTSB can only make recommendations, the FAA makes the rules.

The army and marine helicopters are flying VIPs. With El Paso, we just saw who wins when the FAA and military disagree

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2026, 09:30:00 pm »
As someone who will fly into DCA Thursday we all know it’s an overly crowded airspace. Hopefully everyone is more attentive now.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Crash at DCA
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2026, 09:31:55 pm »
The army and marine helicopters are flying VIPs. With El Paso, we just saw who wins when the FAA and military disagree
That’s true sometimes but the one in the crash at DCA was on a training exercise. The mix of military and civilian traffic in that area has been going on for a long time.