Author Topic: The Rotation (2025):  (Read 749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 46354
  • Re-contending in 202...6?
The Rotation (2025):
« on: January 28, 2025, 01:33:41 pm »
Looking at the rotation:

Locks: Irvin, Gore

Probables: Williams, Soroka

Need to pitch their way on in Spring Training or hope someone else gets hurt: Ogasawara, Herz, Parker

Good luck in Rochester: Cavalli, Lara (who could start at AA), Lord, Adon, Tyler Stuart, Pilkington

IL: Gray

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 66375
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2025, 01:35:49 pm »
Williams and Soroka are as much locks as anyone. If they're healthy, they're getting a turn in the rotation.

Offline IanRubbish

  • Posts: 2256
  • Heading to Spring Training "to mentor"
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2025, 01:55:58 pm »
Williams and Soroka are as much locks as anyone. If they're healthy, they're getting a turn in the rotation.

They'll both be play-the-contract beneficiaries, but neither will be as bad in that area as Corbin.  Bullpen has so much need, makes sense to move Parker or whoever into middle relief.  I'd also expect many pitchers to end up starting this year. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2025, 03:47:51 pm »
Williams and Soroka are as much locks as anyone. If they're healthy, they're getting a turn in the rotation.

Soroka yes due to a commitment when he signed. Like Williams circa 2023. Rizzo at least says there's no commitment to Williams. I agree he has a 90 meter head start in a 100 meter dash for a spot. He should. I just wish Soroka had to compete for his slot. Those 2 should fight for spot 3, and the lower fight it out with the 3 lefties for the last 2 spots.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2025, 03:50:51 pm »
I'd toss Rutledge into the AAA rotation bin as much as Adon, and then empty that bin into the dumpster/ bullpen

Offline IanRubbish

  • Posts: 2256
  • Heading to Spring Training "to mentor"
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2025, 08:05:59 pm »
I'd toss Rutledge into the AAA rotation bin as much as Adon, and then empty that bin into the dumpster/ bullpen

Rutledge can't throw strikes and turns 26 this year.  I think he, Cole Henry, and Cavalli will join Erick Fedde, Mason Denaburg, Seth Romero and co. as pitchers Rizzo had a man crush on who the org had no ability to develop.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2025, 08:08:35 pm »
Only thing that stopped Henry and Cavalli was injuries. They demonstrated talent in the high minors.

Offline IanRubbish

  • Posts: 2256
  • Heading to Spring Training "to mentor"
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2025, 08:27:46 pm »
Only thing that stopped Henry and Cavalli was injuries. They demonstrated talent in the high minors.

Managing that is part of developing power pitchers, and Cavalli never threw strikes.  Now they've adjusted, along with a lot of the league, by babying up and comers.  Sykora averaged just 4 innings per start in Fredericksburg last year.  He and Susana will not be ready to throw even 180 innings if all goes well. 

If you look at who has made it to the rotation here, besides Gore, they're all 4th round plus guys like Irvin, Parker, Herz.  Logan Webb, the Giants ace and last year's leader in IP, was also a 4th rounder.  And even Gore has not lived up to his prospect hype.  The durable pitchers who can throw strikes, keep their pitch counts down, and keep the ball in the park are the ones to get excited about, regardless of where they were drafted. 

Offline GataNats

  • Posts: 2428
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2025, 10:57:49 pm »
If we don’t start Herz and Parker, we are dumber than I ever thought possible.  Soroka and Williams are absolute bums

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2025, 08:58:30 am »
I like Herz, but the dude profiles as a reliever unless he can keep his BBs to less than 3 per 9 IP. Most guys with 4+ BB/9 like he had in the 2d half and in the minors can get by with that if they a 10+ K/9 and relieve. Get the K/9 up to 12+ and you can be a relief stud.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 27594
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2025, 11:34:09 am »
I like Herz, but the dude profiles as a reliever unless he can keep his BBs to less than 3 per 9 IP. Most guys with 4+ BB/9 like he had in the 2d half and in the minors can get by with that if they a 10+ K/9 and relieve. Get the K/9 up to 12+ and you can be a relief stud.
Isn’t the same true for Gore.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2025, 11:42:13 am »
Isn’t the same true for Gore.
Gore has a bit better bb/9. Between 3 & 4

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 27594
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2025, 12:16:09 pm »
Gore has a bit better bb/9. Between 3 & 4
Seems like the same issue though. And high pitch counts. Can’t get past the fifth inning most of the time. Herz is just starting. Gore was at 4.8 in his first year.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2025, 01:53:04 pm »
You may be right. I am not knocking Herz so much as not coronating him yet. There's a reason he was projected as a reliever

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 66375
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2025, 02:17:56 pm »
Herz has two pitches. A riding fastball, that sits 92-93, a good changeup. He doesn't throw strikes and can't get deep into games because of it.

Gore has three plus pitches and pumps 96, throws more strikes l, and doesn't give up homers.

Offline nobleisthyname

  • Posts: 3819
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2025, 03:56:19 pm »
Gore throws strikes but struggles to put guys away. It's maddening watching him pitch because of all the foul balls batters hit off him resulting in long at bats.

Offline GataNats

  • Posts: 2428
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2025, 11:18:23 pm »
Herz has two pitches. A riding fastball, that sits 92-93, a good changeup. He doesn't throw strikes and can't get deep into games because of it.

Gore has three plus pitches and pumps 96, throws more strikes l, and doesn't give up homers.

Herz regularly pumps 95.  I expect him to be throwing even harder

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 27594
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2025, 11:24:53 pm »
Gore averaged a little over five innings a start. Because his pitch counts are high.  He needs to figure out a way to be getting to 6 inning a start to be considered a top flight starter. This is his third full year and it’s time to take a step forward. His stats were better last year than in 2023.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2025, 03:13:10 pm »
average MLB starter went 5.21 IP/start. Gore went 5.19 IP. You'd love another 1/3 of an inning from him, but this "he's got a problem with short starts" stuff should end. I mean, Crochet pitched 20 fewer innings in the same number of starts, and only 57 starters qualified for the ERA title.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 27594
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2025, 03:19:06 pm »
average MLB starter went 5.21 IP/start. Gore went 5.19 IP. You'd love another 1/3 of an inning from him, but this "he's got a problem with short starts" stuff should end.
Well yea that’s the average. Includes all the bottom end rotation guys and fill in. We’re expecting more from a guy who’s supposed to be a top end starter.  He’s not that yet. Maybe if you don’t think you can sign him you just start giving him more pitches per game. Stop the coddling so to speak.

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 30603
  • King of Goodness
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2025, 07:29:05 pm »
Well yea that’s the average. Includes all the bottom end rotation guys and fill in. We’re expecting more from a guy who’s supposed to be a top end starter.  He’s not that yet. Maybe if you don’t think you can sign him you just start giving him more pitches per game. Stop the coddling so to speak.

JCA was trying to pull the wool over our eyes with that Crochet stat...

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 27594
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2025, 08:15:45 pm »
JCA was trying to pull the wool over our eyes with that Crochet stat...
Need to fool another GM so we can trade him

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2025, 08:17:56 pm »
JCA was trying to pull the wool over our eyes with that Crochet stat...
I know they nursed him along, but he still piled up 4.7 fWAR on 146 innings. I'd be happy if Gore just excels and gets us 5+ innings. It was important that he took the ball every 5 days.

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 30603
  • King of Goodness
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2025, 08:38:51 pm »
I know they nursed him along, but he still piled up 4.7 fWAR on 146 innings. I'd be happy if Gore just excels and gets us 5+ innings. It was important that he took the ball every 5 days.

I see my pun wasn't all that punny...

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 44415
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: The Rotation (2025):
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2025, 09:57:15 pm »
I see my pun wasn't all that punny...
sorry. I am usually better at picking that up