Author Topic: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25  (Read 318 times)

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Offline imref

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Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Topic Start: November 28, 2024, 07:17:43 PM »
I'm considering finally ditching Verizon FiOS TV for YouTube TV to save a few dollars a month, but that means no more MASN.

Has anyone had luck this past year in the DC area with using a VPN to watch Nats games via a MLB.tv package?

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #1: December 04, 2024, 09:25:38 AM »
There is an article in the Baltimore Sun that didn't offer specifics but did have a source saying they are looking at offering a standalone DTC option.

Fubo and Directv Stream both have MASN.   Not sure if they are cheaper than FIOS, but they can be if FIOS has a lot of fees/set top box rentals/etc., and they can be easily cancelled for non baseball months.


Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #2: December 04, 2024, 09:28:47 AM »
There is an article in the Baltimore Sun that didn't offer specifics but did have a source saying they are looking at offering a standalone DTC option.

Fubo and Directv Stream both have MASN.   Not sure if they are cheaper than FIOS, but they can be if FIOS has a lot of fees/set top box rentals/etc., and they can be easily cancelled for non baseball months.



Once you get past renting 1 box, streaming is almost always cheaper. I switched my father in law over to roku+YouTube TV and we're saving him almost $100 a month in box rental fees (admittedly he has a lot of tvs)

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #3: December 04, 2024, 10:46:58 AM »
Once you get past renting 1 box, streaming is almost always cheaper. I switched my father in law over to roku+YouTube TV and we're saving him almost $100 a month in box rental fees (admittedly he has a lot of tvs)
It's also very freeing to detach yourself from Verizon/Comcast/etc, as it is easy to cancel/switch these online services if they raise rates/drop channels/piss you off/etc, or you just decide there is no live TV you care about for a few months.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #4: December 05, 2024, 07:52:05 AM »
The only reason I continue to pay $250 a month for Xfinity is because of MASN. The Lerners are starting to make this decision a lot easier for me lol

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #5: December 05, 2024, 08:45:46 AM »
The only reason I continue to pay $250 a month for Xfinity is because of MASN. The Lerners are starting to make this decision a lot easier for me lol
Why not go to Fubo or DTV Stream?   

Offline imref

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #6: December 05, 2024, 09:29:48 AM »
I'm paying about $175 a month before taxes/fees for FiOS triple-play that includes 1GB Internet, unlimited home phone (yes, we still have a landline), and about 150 channels of HD TV with two multi-room DVR set top boxes. I haven't renewed my plan in about 5 years or so. Verizon sent me a message saying that it's time to renew, but based on on-line prices, renewing would increase my cost to about $225 a month.

I looked into eliminating everything but the 1GB service, which would drop the price down to $90 a month. If I add in YouTube TV it's $63 a month for the first year, then $73 after that. DirecTV is $80 a month plus with fees, including a RSN fee, it comes out to about $109 a month.

So at the end of the day, I don't save anything by cutting the cord. And I get some discounts for also having Verizon wireless that i'd probably lose.

YouTube TV doesn't have MASN but does have Monumental. DirecTV has both. I lost Monumental earlier this year from my Verizon TV package.

From what i've been able to find online, Verizon will never force customers to renew, so i'm essentially grandfathered into my current plan for as long as I want.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #7: December 05, 2024, 09:40:31 AM »
Why not go to Fubo or DTV Stream?   

I've been looking into YouTube TV. It has everything my family watches plus all locals so I don't lose Commanders games which would be an immediate eliminator for me. I'm in Old Town Alexandria so for the longest time our only option for internet was Xfinity but we recently got FIOS but not Fios TV lol. I can afford it so its not really a big deal but I can get everything I watch sans MASN with YTTV. But I need to look into it all more and educate myself a bit.

Offline 1995hoo

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #8: December 05, 2024, 09:54:26 AM »
We dropped DirecTV for YouTube TV in March 2020. It happened to be coincidental that we did it right around the start of the COVID shutdowns when all the sports leagues went into hiatus. I used MLB.tv to watch the Nats for a while, but I've stopped doing so for reasons I will explain. It's been two or three years since I stopped, so my comments might no longer be entirely accurate as to how well things do or do not work.

I generally had decent—but not fabulous—results using router-level DNS spoofing through Unlocator. They tell you how to set it up and what you need to do on your particular devices to implement it. For TV purposes, we have two TVs with Amazon Fire Sticks, although we never watched baseball on either of those (guest room and master bedroom). The family room TV, which is the one we use the most, has both a first-generation Amazon Fire Cube and a fairly recent Apple TV, and the basement TV has the same model Apple TV. The Apple TV devices worked much better than the Amazon devices did for the DNS spoofing. Unlocator tells you what to do in the Apple TV settings to make it work, whereas the Amazon devices do not have a comparable option and you wind up having to run the Unlocator VPN app on the device before loading MLB.tv. That, in turn, degrades the device's performance. (Let me hasten to add that there is a new version of the Fire Cube on the market that might perform better due to upgraded electronics.) When I attempted to watch MLB.tv on the Fire Cube, the picture would frequently degrade to the point that it was worse than watching a 480i low-def broadcast.

Even with all that set up, it tended to be somewhat hit-or-miss whether I would succeed in watching a Nats game on any given day. Some days, it would say the game is not available in your area; other days, it would work just fine. I tended to have more success streaming day games on my PC while I was working, but even there I sometimes got error messages. There are various reports that MLB does occasionally try to crack down on VPNs and location-spoofing, so maybe that was part of it.

What ultimately soured me on it was two things. First, some Caps games air on ESPN+. The DNS-spoofing settings you need for MLB.tv conflict with watching ESPN+. So in advance of a Caps game on the latter service, I'd have to log into the Unlocator settings on my PC, change them for the Caps game, and then change them back again afterwards. That became a nuisance. Second, and far more importantly in view of the old adage "happy wife, happy life," the DNS-spoofing settings for MLB.tv flat-out prevented my wife from watching her British and Australian programming through TV apps like Acorn TV and Britbox—and she watches that stuff almost every day. I was having to change the settings back and forth twice a day and it was simply too much of a hassle. So when you combined that with the overall hit-or-miss performance that was causing me to miss a fair number of games anyway, I ultimately said it wasn't worth the money and gave up. The only time I've seen a Nats game on TV in the past couple of years was the rare occasion when Apple TV+ or ESPN carried a game.

One other note: Even if you use DNS-spoofing or a VPN, don't try to watch MLB.tv on a device like an iPhone or iPad unless you are actually outside the Nats' TV territory. Those devices use the GPS to determine your location and MLB.tv can access that information. So even though you can view the game, MLB can tell what you're doing, and there have been reports of MLB revoking subscriptions for users who do this. For the most part their policy appears to be "benign neglect" except for people who use GPS-enabled devices.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #9: December 05, 2024, 10:07:42 AM »
We dropped DirecTV for YouTube TV in March 2020. It happened to be coincidental that we did it right around the start of the COVID shutdowns when all the sports leagues went into hiatus. I used MLB.tv to watch the Nats for a while, but I've stopped doing so for reasons I will explain. It's been two or three years since I stopped, so my comments might no longer be entirely accurate as to how well things do or do not work.

I generally had decent—but not fabulous—results using router-level DNS spoofing through Unlocator. They tell you how to set it up and what you need to do on your particular devices to implement it. For TV purposes, we have two TVs with Amazon Fire Sticks, although we never watched baseball on either of those (guest room and master bedroom). The family room TV, which is the one we use the most, has both a first-generation Amazon Fire Cube and a fairly recent Apple TV, and the basement TV has the same model Apple TV. The Apple TV devices worked much better than the Amazon devices did for the DNS spoofing. Unlocator tells you what to do in the Apple TV settings to make it work, whereas the Amazon devices do not have a comparable option and you wind up having to run the Unlocator VPN app on the device before loading MLB.tv. That, in turn, degrades the device's performance. (Let me hasten to add that there is a new version of the Fire Cube on the market that might perform better due to upgraded electronics.) When I attempted to watch MLB.tv on the Fire Cube, the picture would frequently degrade to the point that it was worse than watching a 480i low-def broadcast.

Even with all that set up, it tended to be somewhat hit-or-miss whether I would succeed in watching a Nats game on any given day. Some days, it would say the game is not available in your area; other days, it would work just fine. I tended to have more success streaming day games on my PC while I was working, but even there I sometimes got error messages. There are various reports that MLB does occasionally try to crack down on VPNs and location-spoofing, so maybe that was part of it.

What ultimately soured me on it was two things. First, some Caps games air on ESPN+. The DNS-spoofing settings you need for MLB.tv conflict with watching ESPN+. So in advance of a Caps game on the latter service, I'd have to log into the Unlocator settings on my PC, change them for the Caps game, and then change them back again afterwards. That became a nuisance. Second, and far more importantly in view of the old adage "happy wife, happy life," the DNS-spoofing settings for MLB.tv flat-out prevented my wife from watching her British and Australian programming through TV apps like Acorn TV and Britbox—and she watches that stuff almost every day. I was having to change the settings back and forth twice a day and it was simply too much of a hassle. So when you combined that with the overall hit-or-miss performance that was causing me to miss a fair number of games anyway, I ultimately said it wasn't worth the money and gave up. The only time I've seen a Nats game on TV in the past couple of years was the rare occasion when Apple TV+ or ESPN carried a game.

One other note: Even if you use DNS-spoofing or a VPN, don't try to watch MLB.tv on a device like an iPhone or iPad unless you are actually outside the Nats' TV territory. Those devices use the GPS to determine your location and MLB.tv can access that information. So even though you can view the game, MLB can tell what you're doing, and there have been reports of MLB revoking subscriptions for users who do this. For the most part their policy appears to be "benign neglect" except for people who use GPS-enabled devices.

Yep, sounds pretty familiar to me as well.  It just became too much effort to bother.

I think there is a pretty solid chance that MASN is available DTC standalone this year though for $20ish/month, so wouldn't make any changes until closer to the season.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #10: December 05, 2024, 11:58:04 AM »
Nice to be out of town so I can watch all the games with MLB TV.  Other than with the Florida teams. 


Offline English Natsie

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #11: December 05, 2024, 06:10:34 PM »
Anything is technically possible - whether or not it is desirable is a separate matter. To do it would, effectively, mean making all of the changes required in the OS, PC LAN, router firmware and browser that would be made to undertake out-and-out piracy. As ever, technical 'solutions' require substantial technical knowledge in order to avoid system disruption and connection identification - if you think that using a VPN is enough, for example, then expect that disconnection warning, from your ISP, pretty soon.

(Interest disclosure - myself, and colleagues, have had academic work pirated, in the past, so it is something about which I disapprove, and take a dim view of. That's why I'm not setting out any of the technical stuff, here - and I'm sure WNFF'ers are honest types, anyway...).

Offline 1995hoo

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #12: December 05, 2024, 06:46:49 PM »
I don’t view it as piracy because you’re still paying for the MLB.tv subscription (I got a single-team subscription because I didn’t care about anyone else).

Offline English Natsie

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #13: December 05, 2024, 07:14:46 PM »
Hmm - not sure how else to describe taking steps to subvert something the rights-holder doesn't want subscribers to do. If mib.tv was fine about it, there wouldn't be a restriction. You may have paid for mlb.tv, but that is for the contracted service, including restrictions, which are (usually) made clear when subscribers sign up. mlb.tv are providing the service you've paid for - anything else is outwith the agreement.

Not unusual - over here, fans of the EPL try to use similar arguments to try and justify pirating games with a 15:00 start-time, on Saturday (subject to a national blackout to encourage attendance at local, lower league games).

Offline varoadking

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #14: December 05, 2024, 07:47:32 PM »
Hmm - not sure how else to describe taking steps to subvert something the rights-holder doesn't want subscribers to do. If mib.tv was fine about it, there wouldn't be a restriction. You may have paid for mlb.tv, but that is for the contracted service, including restrictions, which are (usually) made clear when subscribers sign up. mlb.tv are providing the service you've paid for - anything else is outwith the agreement.

Not unusual - over here, fans of the EPL try to use similar arguments to try and justify pirating games with a 15:00 start-time, on Saturday (subject to a national blackout to encourage attendance at local, lower league games).

Agreed...it's theft by deception...or whatever similar term you would like to use...

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #15: December 06, 2024, 01:42:20 PM »
Hmm - not sure how else to describe taking steps to subvert something the rights-holder doesn't want subscribers to do. If mib.tv was fine about it, there wouldn't be a restriction. You may have paid for mlb.tv, but that is for the contracted service, including restrictions, which are (usually) made clear when subscribers sign up. mlb.tv are providing the service you've paid for - anything else is outwith the agreement.

Not unusual - over here, fans of the EPL try to use similar arguments to try and justify pirating games with a 15:00 start-time, on Saturday (subject to a national blackout to encourage attendance at local, lower league games).

MLB.tv is probably fine with it.   The Nats local rights holders aren't and mlb.tv has some responsibility to protect them.

Normally, the victim here would be the local team you were watching is not getting the revenue from you subscribing to a cable or other bundle with MASN.   In our case, that money wasn't even getting to the Nats for a few years, and Orioles were just keeping it while we sued.

The terms of commerce here are a little loaded too.   MASN counts on millions of subscribers paying $5/month for their channel that 90%+ of them never watch.    On the flipside anyone wanting to pay MASN $5/month to watch their games has to pay $80-$120+/month for a 100 channels they may not watch.

I generally like paying content creators for what I am watching/reading or otherwise consuming, as I realize the benefit and want to support them.   In this very specific case, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #16: December 06, 2024, 04:12:57 PM »
Hmm - not sure how else to describe taking steps to subvert something the rights-holder doesn't want subscribers to do. If mib.tv was fine about it, there wouldn't be a restriction. You may have paid for mlb.tv, but that is for the contracted service, including restrictions, which are (usually) made clear when subscribers sign up. mlb.tv are providing the service you've paid for - anything else is outwith the agreement.

Not unusual - over here, fans of the EPL try to use similar arguments to try and justify pirating games with a 15:00 start-time, on Saturday (subject to a national blackout to encourage attendance at local, lower league games).

When the Lerners start putting that money back into the team then I will care. Right now, they're taking their profits and pocketing them and asking fans to pay for cable they don't want to watch their games. If we even attempted to win then it would be different but fans burning the Lerners at this point does not bother me one bit. They got a free stadium and spend nothing on the team.

Offline Monarch

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Re: Streaming Nats Games without MASN - 2024-25
« Reply #17: December 09, 2024, 10:20:37 AM »
I am going to continue to watch the games for free on the internet. If the owners don't want to pay to improve the team, and the O's don't want to give us our TV rights why should I have to pay more than I have to? Won't have a single problem sleeping at night either.