Author Topic: Who Wants To Win  (Read 1850 times)

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Offline Senatorswin

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Who Wants To Win
« Topic Start: July 26, 2024, 11:15:15 AM »
You hear a lot of comments on here about "if they wanted to field a competitive team", "if they cared about winning", things like that. Sure if they wanted to sign some free agents they could. The old man did when he signed Werth, Scherzer and some others. But looking at the link below, who except for the Padres, who are right behind the Nats, are signing any free agents? I wonder if the Padres will continue to since their owner died. The Twins signed the shortstop, and the Royals had some modest signings but for the most part only selected higher revenue teams are signing big free agents. Having said that, this coming off-season will tell us the owners intentions as a signing of a starting pitcher and/or power first baseman could help make them competitive again.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

Offline imref

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #1: July 26, 2024, 11:25:44 AM »
Philly, the Mets, and the Braves are all making efforts to win. I expect the Mets to make a big push for Soto in the offseason.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #2: July 26, 2024, 12:27:06 PM »
Philly, the Mets, and the Braves are all making efforts to win. I expect the Mets to make a big push for Soto in the offseason.

Yep, they all make a lot more revenue than the Nats. That's the problem with baseball. Those that make the high revenue spend on the free agents and all the teams like from the Nats and below have to try to win through player development in the minors.

It seems like an issue that is becoming more and more pronounced that every big time free agent only has a handful of choices.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #3: July 26, 2024, 01:05:47 PM »
Yep, they all make a lot more revenue than the Nats. That's the problem with baseball. Those that make the high revenue spend on the free agents and all the teams like from the Nats and below have to try to win through player development in the minors.

It seems like an issue that is becoming more and more pronounced that every big time free agent only has a handful of choices.
There is not much keeping these teams from spending.  Open their books and you will see.  That's why they won't open them.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #4: July 26, 2024, 05:29:18 PM »
There is not much keeping these teams from spending.  Open their books and you will see.  That's why they won't open them.

I believe that but it's not just a couple of owners that won't spend. If you look at all the teams below the Nationals in revenue none of them spend except the Padres. Even a lot of the teams generating more revenue than the Nats don't spend. The year before last Rob Manfred said the Padres were going to lose money but not sure that's right. They sell out many games. When a top free agent is available there's only a handful of teams willing to go after them. In reality there's probably no more than 4 out of 30 that are going to be serious contenders for Soto.

So while many fans on here say the Nats aren't willing to spend, I'm not saying they are wrong but they have about 25 teams just like them. The problem seems to be more and more glaring with the Dodgers going crazy.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #5: July 26, 2024, 08:30:31 PM »
I still think they’re set on bringing Soto back. It might seem silly now but I just have a feeling they will go all out for it. Doubt it happens but they’re going to make a massive push.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #6: July 26, 2024, 09:32:25 PM »
I still think they’re set on bringing Soto back. It might seem silly now but I just have a feeling they will go all out for it. Doubt it happens but they’re going to make a massive push.
Lol, who is set on bringing Soto back?

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #7: July 26, 2024, 10:51:38 PM »
Lol, who is set on bringing Soto back?

I think the Lerners will make a push to bring him back. It won't happen and they'll be outbid but it will be another "see we tried" for the fans.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #8: July 27, 2024, 12:00:50 PM »

SS King
2B Abrams
RF Crews
DH Soto
LF Wood
3B House
1B Yoyo/FA
C  Lomavita/Bazzel
CF Young

does look pretty damn good for our playoff run in 2026

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #9: July 27, 2024, 01:39:11 PM »
The Nats have some of the highest ticket and concession prices.  Revenue would be much higher if they had capitalized on 2019 and continued to field a modestly competitive team.  Being in real estate, where all opex is overhead, the Lerners don’t get the idea of spending money to make money.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #10: July 27, 2024, 02:58:08 PM »
SS King
2B Abrams
RF Crews
DH Soto
LF Wood
3B House
1B Yoyo/FA
C  Lomavita/Bazzel
CF Young

does look pretty damn good for our playoff run in 2026

It's a nice dream.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #11: July 27, 2024, 05:53:05 PM »
The Nats have some of the highest ticket and concession prices.  Revenue would be much higher if they had capitalized on 2019 and continued to field a modestly competitive team.  Being in real estate, where all opex is overhead, the Lerners don’t get the idea of spending money to make money.
been said before, but no team was as badly impacted by Covid as the Nats.
I even wonder if Robles and Corbin don't get lost had they rolled from a normal spring into a normal season

Offline imref

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #12: July 27, 2024, 06:15:47 PM »
I’d think the giants have been affected the worst given that most of the tech workers in SF haven’t returned. Navy Yard is a booming residential area now that has more than recovered.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #13: July 27, 2024, 06:22:43 PM »
I’d think the giants have been affected the worst given that most of the tech workers in SF haven’t returned. Navy Yard is a booming residential area now that has more than recovered.
hard to argue that from their on-field performance. In terms of financial strength, i don't see the Navy Yard development as having a big impact on the attendance of the Nats. We could probably pull the attendance figures to gauge the declines. However, that doesn't tell the whole story. it's the buzz about the team and a defending champ season. I think the 2020 record is much better with a normal season than the restarted short season. I just think the profile of the team stays much higher if 2020 is played normally, and maybe even the 2021 team is structured better if, say, they know who to count on. FWIW, in terms of posts, we have been down 70+% since 2019..

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #14: July 27, 2024, 07:44:45 PM »
I’d think the giants have been affected the worst given that most of the tech workers in SF haven’t returned. Navy Yard is a booming residential area now that has more than recovered.

The Giants are benefitting from the A's situation.  The Giants had the same attendance in '19 as they do now, in spite of an uninspiring team.  But the A's drew 20k a game that year compared to 8k per now.  A lot of people who don't work in the city Caltrain up to games as well.  The Giants also hold people accountable for losing.  Kapler is gone and Farhan is close.   They don't reward five consecutive losing seasons with a bobblehead night for the GM.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #15: July 27, 2024, 07:59:03 PM »
The Giants are benefitting from the A's situation.  The Giants had the same attendance in '19 as they do now, in spite of an uninspiring team.  But the A's drew 20k a game that year compared to 8k per now.  A lot of people who don't work in the city Caltrain up to games as well.  The Giants also hold people accountable for losing.  Kapler is gone and Farhan is close.   They don't reward five consecutive losing seasons with a bobblehead night for the GM.
I think people must be stupid out there. They have one winning season since 2016 and not much of a farm system.  I would take the Nats next five years over the Giants.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #16: July 28, 2024, 01:46:45 PM »
I think people must be stupid out there. They have one winning season since 2016 and not much of a farm system.  I would take the Nats next five years over the Giants.

The Giants, unlike the Nats, but like other larger market teams, rarely tank, don't treat injured players poorly like the Nats did Strasburg, and don't let underperforming GMs, managers, and coaches keep their jobs due to low salaries or willingness to push the owner's agenda.  The high attendance in SF is a reflection of fans expectations, even when things don't go well, unlike in DC where ownership cares more about pinching pennies than the poor fan experience of 5-6 year tanks, deferred contracts limiting current spending, and the half empty stadium that results.  Not sure the Giants fans are the stupid ones.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #17: July 28, 2024, 01:54:02 PM »
Having said that, this coming off-season will tell us the owners intentions as a signing of a starting pitcher and/or power first baseman could help make them competitive again.

Boras was outstanding at getting old man Lerner to pay the total sum the agent was seeking, but using deferrals to get there.  This team still has close to $150 million due over the next five seasons in deferrals.  Whether it's Tyler O'Neill or Pete Alonso, Mini Me has to end the family tradition of hitting a total contract value by deferring half the value beyond the playing time.  The Nats don't have the Dodgers revenue, so every decent sized deferral carries the seed of the next tank cycle.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #18: July 28, 2024, 02:12:19 PM »
I think people must be stupid out there. They have one winning season since 2016 and not much of a farm system.  I would take the Nats next five years over the Giants.

The nats were tanking two years after a World Series. We have ownership trying to sell the team and spending as little as possible. The nats will suck until they luck into a run of generational talent in the draft because they won’t spend and they they are incapable of finding talent deep in the draft

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #19: July 28, 2024, 02:47:07 PM »
If you look at the top salaries in baseball the players are on the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Padres, Rangers and Phillies. The Angels have Trout and Rendon but they're usually not in the discussion when there's bidding for players now.

So even if you count the Angels who has top salaries and bid for the big free agents besides those 7 out of 30 teams? Blake Snell is on a 1 year contract so that doesn't really count. Fans of all the other 23 teams can pretty much have the same complaint as Nats fans. The only other big signing I can think of is Rafael Devers of the Red Sox but even the high revenue Red Sox aren't usually in the discussion anymore when a big free agent becomes available.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #20: July 28, 2024, 03:10:40 PM »
If you look at the top salaries in baseball the players are on the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Padres, Rangers and Phillies. The Angels have Trout and Rendon but they're usually not in the discussion when there's bidding for players now.

So even if you count the Angels who has top salaries and bid for the big free agents besides those 7 out of 30 teams? Blake Snell is on a 1 year contract so that doesn't really count. Fans of all the other 23 teams can pretty much have the same complaint as Nats fans. The only other big signing I can think of is Rafael Devers of the Red Sox but even the high revenue Red Sox aren't usually in the discussion anymore when a big free agent becomes available.
Cubs will bid for some.
Giants have been trying to get big names.
Cards are in on some.
Orioles will be with new ownership. 
Seattle maybe.

What about the Nats?  Show me the money. They have it.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #21: July 28, 2024, 03:14:08 PM »
Cubs will bid for some.
Giants have been trying to get big names.
Cards are in on some.
Orioles will be with new ownership. 
Seattle maybe.

What about the Nats?  Show me the money. They have it.

How many big names have those teams signed to a big long term contract? Has even one even one signed one of the big free agents in the last 5 years. One of them may have but I can't think of who. Talks cheap.

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #22: July 28, 2024, 03:20:34 PM »
This is what I posted back in March in looking at the offseason. Not sure which of these teams are happy or unhappy with their choices now, or would act similarly this coming offseason.

It's really only 2 California teams - the Dodgers and Giants - which have dominated the market. The Padres, Angels and A's didn't do much.

Other than them, the bigger spenders are:

• Royals: 7 free agent signings for $109.5 million and the Witt Jr. extension for $288.7 million
• Phillies: 4 free agent signings for $183 million and the Wheeler extension for $126 million
• Astros: 2 free agent signings for $107 million and Altuve's extension for $125 million
• Diamondbacks: 4 free agent signings for $156.5 million
• Brewers: 7 free agent signings for $52.29 million, the Chourio extension for $82 million and Devin Williams' arb avoidance for $7.25 million
• Reds: 3 free agent signings for $108.25 million, India's arb avoidance for $8.8 million and Maile's extension for $3.5 million
• Cardinals: 6 free agent signings for $107.74 million, Edman's arb avoidance for $16.5 million
• Braves: 4 free agent signings for $35.85 million, the Sale trade and extension ($38 million, no idea how much the trade cost them), Jimenez extension ($26 million) and Pierce Johnson extension ($14.25 million).
• Pirates: 7 free agent signings for $34.05 million and the Keller extension for $77 million
• Cubs: 3 free agent signings for $90.75 million

This doesn't really account for the value of trades, though. The Yankees only made one big free agent signing for Marcus Stroman, but their big splash was of course the Soto trade.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #23: July 28, 2024, 03:27:56 PM »
Fans of all the other 23 teams can pretty much have the same complaint as Nats fans.

They don't, and the issue with this franchise isn't just spending per se, it's the playing the contract, the lack of accountability for coaches, GM, and manager, and insulting fans intelligence trying to describe salary dumps as "reboots".

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Who Wants To Win
« Reply #24: July 28, 2024, 04:37:11 PM »
Royals, cards, brewers, and Phillies look happy now.