Author Topic: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson (& a bunch more)  (Read 3390 times)

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Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #25: October 04, 2023, 02:45:10 PM »
Theyre not thinking of building value like that.

They're thinking that by cutting payroll, they maximize the profit in the sale. Winning doesnt matter. The team's value lays in its location and the potential fan base, not in the ability to perform on the field.

X is how much they spend, Y is how much they get for the sale.
you are probably right.  I just can't believe Watson's salary made that much of a difference. Paying a minor leaguer on your 40 man roster MLB minimum by calling a guy up makes more of a difference. But yes, I don't think having Elias on board would change the sale price for the Os, so I can't imagine having a competent guy running player development matters in teh sale price.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #26: October 04, 2023, 03:12:20 PM »
Do we even know that Watson was even good? Rizzo hired his old drinking buddy to oversee player development and it's entirely possible he was, you know, not good like he was at every other place he's been. Mark could have said, "We can find someone for $100k less who is actually good and not just your boy." Mark more than anything hates *wasting* money and could see Watson as bad at his job.

Rizzo hyped him up as a GUY but there's literally no evidence he had any real vision or leadership or impact. The rebuild is moving forward well because we got really good players in the Soto trade and Rizzo drafted Dylan Crews, not because Watson was grinding in Wilmington working one-on-one with Brady House. I'm not really in a meltdown over this other than to say Mark's gotta sell the team because this whole "no money tied up anywhere so we can sell cleanly" MO is bad for business.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #27: October 04, 2023, 03:13:32 PM »
I cannot believe that Rizzo didn't ask the question about long term goals/ plans as the team was up for sale at lease 6 months prior or more to his signing.
It’s a bird in the hand. He’s got a new family and wants to keep living comfortably.  He’s also used to working for the Lerner family. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #28: October 04, 2023, 03:19:09 PM »
And also all of a sudden we are producing rosterable, MLB-quality pitchers like Irvin, Rutledge, Cavalli (oops), Ferrer when we hadn't for 7 years or so. We also graduated Alu and look like we may have hit on Young. Alu is Stevenson (a marginal MLBer, but still an MLBer on yet another playoff roster) while Young may be more than that (a MAT with more OBP, fewer Ks, and no HRs). That's not to mention guys who look like development success but who have yet to hit the majors. I don't think you can look at the development system and not say that it's in better shape even if you drop out the trade products and waiver pickups.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #29: October 04, 2023, 03:36:41 PM »
And also all of a sudden we are producing rosterable, MLB-quality pitchers like Irvin, Rutledge, Cavalli (oops), Ferrer when we hadn't for 7 years or so. We also graduated Alu and look like we may have hit on Young. Alu is Stevenson (a marginal MLBer, but still an MLBer on yet another playoff roster) while Young may be more than that (a MAT with more OBP, fewer Ks, and no HRs). That's not to mention guys who look like development success but who have yet to hit the majors. I don't think you can look at the development system and not say that it's in better shape even if you drop out the trade products and waiver pickups.

I mean all the player development lead is doing is coming up with overall strategy for player development, the boots on the ground coaches are doing 90% of the work. I'd be more interested to see who was specifically directing pitching development strategy and hitting development strategy for the org, and if Watson was doing both then that's a big yikes.

Freaking out over a crappy front office guy getting canned after one insignificant year is not worth it. I'm more concerned that we have the right guys managing and coaching at each level than whatever drinking buddy Rizzo has making $600k to tell guys to "keep grinding" and I bet Mark felt the same. We don't have the full story here but jumping to a "Mark fired an ACE development guy after a year to save $10!" conclusion is wrong IMO. This is a guy who was basically clowned online as a hire beyond the usual puff pieces that Mike was OVERHAULING the front office by bringing in 20 senior advisors (all his friends) and hiring one dude with a computer.

Mark fired JDP because the dominican operation was a total crapshow this year and he was blowing huge bonuses on guys who couldn't get past a-ball. Meh. Mark fired a bunch of scouts, meh. Mark fired Rizzo's old friend who was unemployed a year ago. Meh. If it was so bad Rizzo would have bailed. I think Mike is just waiting out new ownership but even that's a pretty big gamble.

Online Slateman

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #30: October 04, 2023, 03:38:11 PM »
I cannot believe that Rizzo didn't ask the question about long term goals/ plans as the team was up for sale at lease 6 months prior or more to his signing.
Who says the Lerners told him the truth?

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #31: October 04, 2023, 03:50:45 PM »
Who says the Lerners told him the truth?

You’re taking it to the extreme without any basis of the individuals involved.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #32: October 04, 2023, 03:52:40 PM »
I would take $500k a year to tell everyone to keep grinding. Just in case anyone important is reading this.

Online Slateman

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #33: October 04, 2023, 04:27:11 PM »
You’re taking it to the extreme without any basis of the individuals involved.
The Lerners have not earned the benefit of the doubt. They are forcing front office cuts to save money.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #34: October 05, 2023, 10:20:22 AM »
"Watson was made a central figure of the rebuild, then lost his job amid a restructuring driven by the Lerner family’s desire to trim the organization’s budget. More cuts are coming in player development, a curious decision after the Lerners invested significantly in technology and staff increases in recent years. But the team remains for sale, which is another reason it keeps floating in the ether."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/03/nationals-rebuild-progress/

This is damning. Particularly the bolded.

Online aspenbubba

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #35: October 05, 2023, 01:03:38 PM »
I mean all the player development lead is doing is coming up with overall strategy for player development, the boots on the ground coaches are doing 90% of the work. I'd be more interested to see who was specifically directing pitching development strategy and hitting development strategy for the org, and if Watson was doing both then that's a big yikes.

Freaking out over a crappy front office guy getting canned after one insignificant year is not worth it. I'm more concerned that we have the right guys managing and coaching at each level than whatever drinking buddy Rizzo has making $600k to tell guys to "keep grinding" and I bet Mark felt the same. We don't have the full story here but jumping to a "Mark fired an ACE development guy after a year to save $10!" conclusion is wrong IMO. This is a guy who was basically clowned online as a hire beyond the usual puff pieces that Mike was OVERHAULING the front office by bringing in 20 senior advisors (all his friends) and hiring one dude with a computer.

Mark fired JDP because the dominican operation was a total crapshow this year and he was blowing huge bonuses on guys who couldn't get past a-ball. Meh. Mark fired a bunch of scouts, meh. Mark fired Rizzo's old friend who was unemployed a year ago. Meh. If it was so bad Rizzo would have bailed. I think Mike is just waiting out new ownership but even that's a pretty big gamble.

It is not often that I agree UMDNats but I wholeheartedly agree with his analysis as I believe most other posts on this thread are pure speculation based upon the adage "that the Lerners are cheap". The WaPo is not what I would consider having an ear into what the Lerner family is thinking. Remember that the sale was offered in whole or adding additional investors . They are not going to kill the fan base by wholesale cuts to the front ofice and with a minimal staff of scouts at all levels .

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #36: October 05, 2023, 01:30:55 PM »
I honestly don't care so much of all the org changes going on. It's evident the Nats have had issues at the MLB level and in the minors with developing talent, and I'm guilty of saying "clean house" in the Front Office. This is as close to it as we can think of getting. Is this cost cutting by current ownership? Possibly. Are the low-balling new hires and will that even more negatively impact scouting and development? Who knows and only time will tell.

I still firmly see this as current ownership is trying to arrange things for a sale, without completely raising the white flag. I also hold true to the reason that the team isn't sold is the value of the team with MASN attached. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if MASN was ever dismantled, that a sale would be announced a day later.

Online Slateman

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #37: October 05, 2023, 01:33:28 PM »
It is not often that I agree UMDNats but I wholeheartedly agree with his analysis as I believe most other posts on this thread are pure speculation based upon the adage "that the Lerners are cheap". The WaPo is not what I would consider having an ear into what the Lerner family is thinking. Remember that the sale was offered in whole or adding additional investors . They are not going to kill the fan base by wholesale cuts to the front ofice and with a minimal staff of scouts at all levels .
Jesse Dougherty has enough sources and credibility to have a good idea of what ownership's plan is for the near future. And he's reporting that these cuts are due to a desire to trim budget, not improve the front office.

Frankly, firing/cutting people for the purposes of improving the team would come from Mike Rizzo, not ownership.  In the last two months, there have a been over a dozen personnel cut and no one has said anything about bringing in fresh blood, new eyes. Jesse Dougherty is specifically reporting this is done to cut the budget.

Im not sure I buy that JDP was fired for the international signingd. Cruz isnt even 20, so not getting out of A ball isnt that big of a deal. If he's being fired for that, why isnt Rizzo fired for Elijah Green. And yea, fired a bunch of scouts, but no talk of getting new ones. And Dipuglia had a decent reputation. Again, no talk of replacing and augmenting.

Two years ago, Rizzo hired a whole bunch of new people to get us up to where most of MLB was. Now the Lerners are cutting people in the middle of a rebuild, during a time when baseball is emphasizing finding young talent. There is no baseball reason we should be doing  cutting staff. Nor is there any reason to give ownership the benefit of the doubt here.

With Jesse Dougherty reporting this being done for budget reasons, and absent any influx of new player development/scouting, I see no reason to believe the Lerners arent trying to be cheap. Im just hoping its because they have a plan in place to quickly sell the team.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #38: October 05, 2023, 04:06:07 PM »
It's not Watson, but 8 guys let go from the minor league staff, focus on hitting coaches.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/05/nationals-player-development-staff-changes/

Quote
Notably, four of the departures were on the minor league hitting side: hitting coordinator Joe Dillon, lower level hitting coordinator Troy Gingrich, high-A Wilmington hitting coach Micah Franklin and Class AA Harrisburg hitting coach Tim Doherty.

Infield coordinator Cody Ransom, outfield and base-running coordinator Coco Crisp, lower level pitching coordinator Michael Tejera, and rehab and Dominican Republic pitching coordinator Mark Grater also won’t return next season.

Tougher to keep a job with on the Nats staff than as a content moderator on X.  But this decision clearly has some merit to it:
Quote
Both Wilmington and Harrisburg ranked last in their respective leagues in home runs, RBI and slugging percentage.

This season, the Class AA Harrisburg Senators had two players acquired in the Juan Soto trade (James Wood and Robert Hassell III), three of the Nationals’ 2023 draft picks (No. 2 overall pick Dylan Crews, second-round pick Yohandy Morales and Andrew Pinckney, who went in the fourth round) to go along with 2021 first-round pick Brady House and 2022 third-round pick Trey Lipscomb, who turned heads with his performance this season. But some of the team’s top prospects at that level struggled with strikeouts. Wood struck out 124 times in 368 plate appearances with Harrisburg. Hassell, known for his contact skills, struck out 152 times in 476 plate appearances. House struck out 42 times in 148 plate appearances.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #39: October 05, 2023, 04:06:55 PM »
The Wilmington hitting coach was a lock to get fired after seeing how the organization basically shunned the affiliate this summer.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #40: October 05, 2023, 04:09:49 PM »
The Wilmington hitting coach was a lock to get fired after seeing how the organization basically shunned the affiliate this summer.
It sounds like Harrisburg's hitting coach is being offed for being the reverse-alchemist, turning golden prospects into K machines with no pop (well, Wood had pop).

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nats will not extend DeJohn Watson
« Reply #41: October 05, 2023, 04:11:29 PM »
Hassell's K are hard to understand. I could understand the drop in HRs, and perhaps even a tendency for weak contact, due to the hamate, but the flat out Ks are hard to take.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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tweaked the title because this thread is bigger than Watson.

Online IanRubbish

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Drafting and development has never been good under Rizzo.  Mini Me hates parting with a dollar and probably figures he'd rather save money than continue funding mediocrity.  Either way, the lack of pride in the product is concerning.

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Hassell's K are hard to understand. I could understand the drop in HRs, and perhaps even a tendency for weak contact, due to the hamate, but the flat out Ks are hard to take.

Hassell's K rate was never great, except for in 2022 with San Diego. Frankly, I am wondering how much of Wood and Hassell's problems were masked by the environment.

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Nats hiring Danny Haas from the D-backs as their new Scouting director per R.J. Anderson

Offline HalfSmokes

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Just gotta hope Ted’s group ot another buyer steps up. 

Ted’s salary cap league rich, not baseball rich. If he buys the nats, we’re the pirates

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https://twitter.com/andrewcgolden/status/1711517413840154940

https://twitter.com/britt_ghiroli/status/1711518354932941254

Bench Coach Tim Bogar, Third Base Coach Gary Disarcina, and Assistant Hitting Coach Pat Roessler, and Eric Young Jr will not return

Hickey stays

Offline Five Banners

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https://twitter.com/andrewcgolden/status/1711517413840154940

https://twitter.com/britt_ghiroli/status/1711518354932941254

Bench Coach Tim Bogar, Third Base Coach Gary Disarcina, and Assistant Hitting Coach Pat Roessler, and Eric Young Jr will not return

Hickey stays

Can we trade Bogar for Hickey

Online Slateman

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Can we trade Bogar for Hickey
Apparently not