Rizzo Renewed by Marky Mark & the In-Laws

[welch]

Yes, cheers for five years of tanking and PR when the org had already thrown away five seasons from 2006 to 2010.  And cheers for having to make trades to make up for atrocious drafting and development that he never was held accountable for.  And those poor Padres!  16 games over .500 with a 95% chance of making the playoffs.

But we've got the best clown show in the league!  Next season it might open for Journey or Def Leppard.

Who is James Wood? Who is CJ Abrams? Who is Mackenzie Gore? Robert Hassell? Jarlin Susana? Was Trea Turner any good?

[Mattionals]

Who is James Wood? Who is CJ Abrams? Who is Mackenzie Gore? Robert Hassell? Jarlin Susana? Was Trea Turner any good?

Welch, buddy, don't do it.

[IanRubbish]

Who is James Wood? Who is CJ Abrams? Who is Mackenzie Gore? Robert Hassell? Jarlin Susana? Was Trea Turner any good?

Amazing that he traded an elite hitter with 2 and a half years and got something back, and you think Gore and Hassell are special?  Really?   

[imref]

Amazing that he traded an elite hitter with 2 and a half years and got something back, and you think Gore and Hassell are special?  Really?   

Are we really criticizing the Soto trade? San Diego would undo that trade in a heartbeat.

[Natsinpwc]

Amazing that he traded an elite hitter with 2 and a half years and got something back, and you think Gore and Hassell are special?  Really?

It was a good haul.  I wouldn’t be surprised next year to get a combined 8 WAR from the three big leaguers. Susana has a chance. Don’t think much of Hassell. Lucky he didn’t take the bums from St Louis that some folks wanted. We know you don’t like Rizzo but his track record on trades is generally very good.

[Smithian]

This is how a professional GM behaves. Unlike Rizzo, who'll never admit a mistake and will deflect, finger point, and get defensive all day long, John Lynch takes on responsibility for the contract issues the Niners are having with Aiyuk and former WTF Trent Williams.  Also never heard Lynch justify the bad seasons when he first showed up, or the SB losses.  He doesn't try to insult fans intelligence in order to defend the owner like Rizzo does, and Niners owner Jed York has had some very bad moments since he took over the team.

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/183274-accountability-stalled-negotiations-brandon-williams/

Yes, cheers for five years of tanking and PR when the org had already thrown away five seasons from 2006 to 2010.  And cheers for having to make trades to make up for atrocious drafting and development that he never was held accountable for.  And those poor Padres!  16 games over .500 with a 95% chance of making the playoffs.

But we've got the best clown show in the league!  Next season it might open for Journey or Def Leppard.

Lynch got Kittle in the 5th, Purdy in the 7th, Bosa, Deebo, Aiyuk, Fred Warner in the 3rd, he's drafted all the top players on the team except CMC and Trent Williams.  When he busted with Javon Kinlaw and Trey Lance he was open about it and didn’t once double down on his mistake.  He was very open to Kyle’s view that Purdy as a rookie in camp was better than Jimmy G and Lance.  He doesn’t double down on mistakes like Rizzo, he admits them.

I understand and respect your shtick that "everything Rizzo/Lerners is the worst and there is no argument otherwise" but you do know Mike Rizzo has won a World Series, right?

I have plenty of issues with Rizzo, but he inherited the worst franchise in baseball in 2009 and after 100-loss seasons built a club that had a very competitive 2010's and won a World Series. The World Series fallout was a disaster, for reasons within and outside Rizzo's control. Rightly or wrongly, he survived the fallout and it is pretty obvious now this club is back on an upward trajectory with talent up and down the system.

I have a lot of posts detailing my problems with Rizzo. But acting like he is the "best clown" in baseball is not accurate and I think you know it. I guess this is just your way of venting.

[Smithian]

It was a good haul.  I wouldn’t be surprised next year to get a combined 8 WAR from the three big leaguers. Susana has a chance. Don’t think much of Hassell. Lucky he didn’t take the bums from St Louis that some folks wanted. We know you don’t like Rizzo but his track record on trades is generally very good.

Turning Jon Lester into multiple seasons of Lane Thomas then into Jose Tena and a couple solid prospect is a pretty nice one recently.

The biggest miss of Rizzo's career in hindsight was the Scherzer and Turner for Gray and Ruiz. I wonder if you gave him truth serum if he would admit he was operating under the assumption the idea was to clear payroll space and attack the offseason for a quick rebuild around Soto, then the Lerners basically washed their hands of the Nationals payroll. That's how I read it. In hindsight, I think he goes for more prospects than major league ready players.

[Natsinpwc]

Turning Jon Lester into multiple seasons of Lane Thomas then into Jose Tena and a couple solid prospect is a pretty nice one recently.

The biggest miss of Rizzo's career in hindsight was the Scherzer and Turner for Gray and Ruiz. I wonder if you gave him truth serum if he would admit he was operating under the assumption the idea was to clear payroll space and attack the offseason for a quick rebuild around Soto, then the Lerners basically washed their hands of the Nationals payroll. That's how I read it. In hindsight, I think he goes for more prospects than major league ready players.

Both were highly rated.  Sometimes they don't work out. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Turning Jon Lester into multiple seasons of Lane Thomas then into Jose Tena and a couple solid prospect is a pretty nice one recently.

The biggest miss of Rizzo's career in hindsight was the Scherzer and Turner for Gray and Ruiz. I wonder if you gave him truth serum if he would admit he was operating under the assumption the idea was to clear payroll space and attack the offseason for a quick rebuild around Soto, then the Lerners basically washed their hands of the Nationals payroll. That's how I read it. In hindsight, I think he goes for more prospects than major league ready players.

even most of the other 2021 moves had quick rebuild around Soto written all over them. Lester for Thomas was probably a deal for a major league ready platoon bat / 4th OF that worked out better than expected, and Hand for Riley Adams was also for an MLB-ready backup catcher. Hudson for Mason Thompson was another immediately rosterable arm. That's 4 deals. The only one that seemed to not fit the mold was Harrison and Gomes for Shuman and Guasch, IIRC, and I'm not sure what levels those two were at before injuries.

[Smithian]

even most of the other 2021 moves had quick rebuild around Soto written all over them. Lester for Thomas was probably a deal for a major league ready platoon bat / 4th OF that worked out better than expected, and Hand for Riley Adams was also for an MLB-ready backup catcher. Hudson for Mason Thompson was another immediately rosterable arm. That's 4 deals. The only one that seemed to not fit the mold was Harrison and Gomes for Shuman and Guasch, IIRC, and I'm not sure what levels those two were at before injuries.

Correct. I'm torn between I don't blame Rizzo for 2022 being a disaster when it's clear he was preparing for a different situation than he was ultimately given and, "Hey, it was a good decade, time for a new voice."

I think he's been pretty on point recently, but this offseason is the make or break and I think that make or break has more to do with Rizzo's bosses than him.

[IanRubbish]

I understand and respect your shtick that "everything Rizzo/Lerners is the worst and there is no argument otherwise" but you do know Mike Rizzo has won a World Series, right?

So did Dayton Moore and the Royals fired him.  Now they're going to the playoffs with a new GM.

Rizzo has been successful in one area - lowering the expectations of the fanbase

[IanRubbish]

Are we really criticizing the Soto trade? San Diego would undo that trade in a heartbeat.

Have to feel badly for the Padres.   16 games over .500 and averaging 40,000 a night. 

[IanRubbish]

Both were highly rated.  Sometimes they don't work out.

Problem with the Dodger trade was that the haul was cut back by them taking one of Scherzer's $15 million deferrals.  That wasn't his fault, but ownership's.

[Natsinpwc]

Have to feel badly for the Padres.   16 games over .500 and averaging 40,000 a night.

They are certainly swinging for the fences.  Had a top farm system even after the Soto trade.  Now back down near the bottom after the Arraez and Cease trades.  Not sure they have much of a future but trying for now. 

[Slateman]

They are certainly swinging for the fences.  Had a top farm system even after the Soto trade.  Now back down near the bottom after the Arraez and Cease trades.  Not sure they have much of a future but trying for now. 

AJ Preller just continually reloads his system

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Have to feel badly for the Padres.   16 games over .500 and averaging 40,000 a night. 

Well, I guess they got back some contributors for Soto to end up remaining in contention. Preller did a nice patch for this year's team.

King>>Gore this year but is 4 years older.
Thorpe was a nice get who was useful in the Cease deal, but that deal also involved other prospects.
Higashioka has been currently useful with Campusano having a Ruiz-like year (slightly better results but Statcast x stats are remarkably similar in xBA, xSLG, and xwOBA).
Vazquez and Brito are / were performing like JAGs. Vazquez is a 7th starter, and Brito makes JBarnes look like a high lev guy.

Of the pieces the Padres dealt, Wood probably would have been the biggest contributor this year. Gore would have been in their rotation but more as a 4/5. Jackson Merrill might be a shortstop now had Abrams not been traded because, between Kim, Merrill, and Bogaerts, there's no way Abrams would not have been moved to CF. Merrill might not have broken with the club this year without the outfield conversion, but with Kim's struggles and being hurt, he likely would have taken over shortstop. Only way that doesn't happen is if CJ (or Merrill) is in another deal.

As good as the Soto deal looks for the Nats, I'd say the Preller's recovery was nice. They could surely use Wood, and CJ may have been destined to be traded or in the OF.

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

So did Dayton Moore and the Royals fired him.  Now they're going to the playoffs with a new GM.

Rizzo has been successful in one area - lowering the expectations of the fanbase

Weren't we one of the winningest franchises in baseball in the 2010s? Didn't we win a World Series? The team got old, the owner died and the ones remaining don't want to spend. People arguing that Mark really wants to keep the team now are just being silly. If he could sell the team for what he wanted it would be gone yesterday. Rizzo now has a team loaded with top prospects and he's doing it with a low payroll because again, Mark does not want the damn team. My guess is the Lerners sell in the next couple of years and I would assume at that point you get your wish and Rizzo moves on.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Weren't we one of the winningest franchises in baseball in the 2010s? Didn't we win a World Series? The team got old, the owner died and the ones remaining don't want to spend. People arguing that Mark really wants to keep the team now are just being silly. If he could sell the team for what he wanted it would be gone yesterday. Rizzo now has a team loaded with top prospects and he's doing it with a low payroll because again, Mark does not want the damn team. My guess is the Lerners sell in the next couple of years and I would assume at that point you get your wish and Rizzo moves on.

Even if they decide not to spend next year, the team should be in the WC mix. Tena covers the hole at 3rd until House is ready, they may have 1st covered between Yepez and Chappy, and they probably do not have to spend much for one short-term bat. As for the rotation, the in-house options could staff up at least 4 slots before you start talking Cavalli, Lord, Lara, Stuart, etc... The point of worry is the bullpen, and you can always find vets to surround Finnegan, Law, Salazar, and the 3 lefties. I'd be disappointed if they went cheap, but they can.

[IanRubbish]

Weren't we one of the winningest franchises in baseball in the 2010s? Didn't we win a World Series?

And also the first team in MLB history to finish in last four years in a row after winning the WS.  At some point, fans have to take the responsibility for having such low expectations.  The other thing is the spin about the 2010s.  8 winning seasons in a row was great, but now Rizzo's been saying we had a ten year run, and ignoring that we missed the playoffs three of those years, and had disappointing teams in 2015 and 2018 that barely finished over .500.  Five years with playoff runs in 20 years of existence is below league average of 6.8 during that time.   We're supposed to celebrate this?

This franchise is turning into the Wizards.  Yeah, there'll probably be an 86 or 88 win team within the next few years, but fans simply have low expectations that allow the owner to run a dysfunctional org, survive due to away team fans, and put out defensive spin instead of making good decisions.  Branding is important, and at least the team nickname isn't a joke like the NBA and NFL teams.  So at least ownership isn't trying to rename the team something silly, so will give them that.

[Natsinpwc]

AJ Preller just continually reloads his system

And not much to show for it post season wise.  2022 was a nice run but missed last year.  Probably a quick exit this season.  They are the 2010s Wizards. 

[Slateman]

Weren't we one of the winningest franchises in baseball in the 2010s? Didn't we win a World Series? The team got old, the owner died and the ones remaining don't want to spend. People arguing that Mark really wants to keep the team now are just being silly. If he could sell the team for what he wanted it would be gone yesterday. Rizzo now has a team loaded with top prospects and he's doing it with a low payroll because again, Mark does not want the damn team. My guess is the Lerners sell in the next couple of years and I would assume at that point you get your wish and Rizzo moves on.

4th most wins 2010-2019. Only the Yankees, Cardinals, and Dodgers ahead of us. Same number of WS titles as any of them.

[Slateman]

And not much to show for it post season wise.  2022 was a nice run but missed last year.  Probably a quick exit this season.  They are the 2010s Wizards. 

Maybe. But it is impressive how quickly he reloads a farm system.

And I gotta say, his trading of Soto has worked out nicely for him.

[Natsinpwc]

And also the first team in MLB history to finish in last four years in a row after winning the WS.  At some point, fans have to take the responsibility for having such low expectations.  The other thing is the spin about the 2010s.  8 winning seasons in a row was great, but now Rizzo's been saying we had a ten year run, and ignoring that we missed the playoffs three of those years, and had disappointing teams in 2015 and 2018 that barely finished over .500.  Five years with playoff runs in 20 years of existence is below league average of 6.8 during that time.   We're supposed to celebrate this?

This franchise is turning into the Wizards.  Yeah, there'll probably be an 86 or 88 win team within the next few years, but fans simply have low expectations that allow the owner to run a dysfunctional org, survive due to away team fans, and put out defensive spin instead of making good decisions.  Branding is important, and at least the team nickname isn't a joke like the NBA and NFL teams.  So at least ownership isn't trying to rename the team something silly, so will give them that.

You say 20 years but Rizzo was not there the whole time.  Also, MLB let the franchise be let run into the ground before it was moved here.  He is responsible for the last five years but not the initial mess.  I know you want him to be.  It's kind of funny that you cite him for exaggerating and then exaggerate how long he has been in charge.  I know you're serious so probably missed that. 

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

And also the first team in MLB history to finish in last four years in a row after winning the WS.  At some point, fans have to take the responsibility for having such low expectations.  The other thing is the spin about the 2010s.  8 winning seasons in a row was great, but now Rizzo's been saying we had a ten year run, and ignoring that we missed the playoffs three of those years, and had disappointing teams in 2015 and 2018 that barely finished over .500.  Five years with playoff runs in 20 years of existence is below league average of 6.8 during that time.   We're supposed to celebrate this?

This franchise is turning into the Wizards.  Yeah, there'll probably be an 86 or 88 win team within the next few years, but fans simply have low expectations that allow the owner to run a dysfunctional org, survive due to away team fans, and put out defensive spin instead of making good decisions.  Branding is important, and at least the team nickname isn't a joke like the NBA and NFL teams.  So at least ownership isn't trying to rename the team something silly, so will give them that.

What would you have the fans do? Should we storm Nats park with pitchforks? Threaten the Lerners with poor attendance? I think you have this idea that your way is the correct way and that means "Rizzo bad" and he must go and the fans that don't agree with you are just okay with losing. Most of us care. Most of us were around for the Bowden years and the back to back 100 loss seasons. I trust in Rizzo to build this thing back the same way he did before. We unfortunately do not have an ownership group that wants to go out there and compete with the Mets, Dodgers, Yankees etc. when it concerns spending. I get you are upset and that's justifiable but I think your vitriol towards Rizzo is misguided. He's been building this franchise with one hand tied behind his back since Mark took over.

[Natsinpwc]

Maybe. But it is impressive how quickly he reloads a farm system.

And I gotta say, his trading of Soto has worked out nicely for him.

Turning chicken you know what into chicken salad.

I just think it will be tough in the NL the next few years.  Dodgers.  Phillies for another 2 years maybe.  Braves will get their guys healthy.  Brewers although they don't want to pay and lose guys.  DBacks. 

It's funny because we were all saying how many teams were in the wild card race in the NL.  Now seems DBacks and Padres have locked up spots and Braves/Mets for the last spot.