Author Topic: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?  (Read 10623 times)

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Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #125: June 07, 2024, 07:18:02 AM »
Jacob Young is tied for the major league lead in OAA for for all outfielders. He might legitimately win the gold glove this season if he keeps up this defensive performance.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #126: June 07, 2024, 09:22:42 AM »
I want to see them come up here and start producing before I’m ready to eject Young. And there’s now a DH, no reason we can’t have those three young outfielders playing while bumping Winker to DH.

Better prospects than Wood and Crews have flamed out and been AAAA churn. Don’t count our chickens until they’re hatched.
that's abundantly cautious. If there were a good enough deal, then I'd run a risk in order to fill a position of need. It's like the O's being worried about Mountcastle or Adley so hanging onto Mancini or Pedro Severino.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #127: June 07, 2024, 11:15:25 AM »
If Wood and Crews arent 3+ WAR players, the rebuild is over. Having a defensive first CFer is pointless if you're a bottom 3 offense.

Offline welch

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #128: June 07, 2024, 12:42:33 PM »

Yes, Wood should be able to hit in the majors, and so should Crews. In fact, Crews is the electric sort of player that the Nats need right now.

What does this have to do with Young, and whether Young is a real major leaguer? That was the topic of this thread. It began in the turmoil of questions about Victor Robles, who had been the Nats starting CF for years, and whether Young might replace him. It seems that everyone agrees, now, that Young is good enough. Great fielder, great base-runner, and someone who hits enough to be useful even though he is not a slugger.

The discussion has shifted. Notice that people now have begun to imagine if the Nats could gain a power-hitting CF who, as JCA suggests, might field CF about 85% as well as Young. Slateman wonders if stolen bases are over-rated this season and if steals will have little value in the future.

Neither JCA nor Slate explain how the Nats can trade Young for a hard-hitting CF.

I keep saying that Jacob Young reminds me of Del Unser, although teams, especially in the AL, prized power. Remember that the Nats got Unser for Don Lock, a fine CF who had hit 25 homers for a couple of consecutive seasons. But Lock had fallen away to hitting in the .230s with only 13 home runs, so the team traded him for Darrold Knowles. And Unser, himself, was traded as part of a package for another package; I don't remember any other players in either package, and it is likely that no one else does.

A trade of Young will not return a big hitter. Let's be happy with what the Nats have. Find a 1B who can hit. Figure out if Senzel can handle 3B until House is ready. Promote Wood.

Online varoadking

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #129: June 07, 2024, 12:51:16 PM »
I don't see the need to rush any of the kids...Rizzo already torpedoed this season even before it began...


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #130: June 07, 2024, 01:18:27 PM »
Yes, Wood should be able to hit in the majors, and so should Crews. In fact, Crews is the electric sort of player that the Nats need right now.

What does this have to do with Young, and whether Young is a real major leaguer?
...
A trade of Young will not return a big hitter. Let's be happy with what the Nats have. Find a 1B who can hit. Figure out if Senzel can handle 3B until House is ready. Promote Wood.
I think the jump  that's been made shows he's well past is he a major leaguer to how valuable a major leaguer is he. I like Blue911's comp of Ben Revere, but I think he's a better defender. That's a good 7 or so year career, mostly as a starter.

Slate's view I think is that for this team, his talents are more valuable in trade than on this team. This team is sorely in need of offensive help, and we have about 5 AA/AAA potential CFs (Wood, Crews, Hassell, Pinckney, and Lile - I think Lile is still A+ but laying well). Also, the rotation might need an ace, in his view. Trade from depth is the idea. A team with solid hitting that could play a second leadoff guy at #9 in the order but which would love great CF D might be better able to use Young than a team without any sort of offense.

As for me, I wouldn't kick Young to the curb. I may be his biggest fan if you track this thread. I used to think of him as a 4th outfielder, now I'm skeptical that Hassell / Pinckney /Lile will force the issue. That said, about the two easiest things to find in free agency is some 30+ year old left fielder or 1st baseman, and Crews's or Wood's value would be maxed in CF.  If another team puts a high value on Young, or wants him in a package, I'd look at it.

Offline welch

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #131: June 07, 2024, 01:31:41 PM »
I think the jump  that's been made shows he's well past is he a major leaguer to how valuable a major leaguer is he. I like Blue911's comp of Ben Revere, but I think he's a better defender. That's a good 7 or so year career, mostly as a starter.

Slate's view I think is that for this team, his talents are more valuable in trade than on this team. This team is sorely in need of offensive help, and we have about 5 AA/AAA potential CFs (Wood, Crews, Hassell, Pinckney, and Lile - I think Lile is still A+ but laying well). Also, the rotation might need an ace, in his view. Trade from depth is the idea. A team with solid hitting that could play a second leadoff guy at #9 in the order but which would love great CF D might be better able to use Young than a team without any sort of offense.

As for me, I wouldn't kick Young to the curb. I may be his biggest fan if you track this thread. I used to think of him as a 4th outfielder, now I'm skeptical that Hassell / Pinckney /Lile will force the issue. That said, about the two easiest things to find in free agency is some 30+ year old left fielder or 1st baseman, and Crews's or Wood's value would be maxed in CF.  If another team puts a high value on Young, or wants him in a package, I'd look at it.

I mostly agree. We know Young is a major leaguer, and a regular at that. As I watch AA, Hassell does not convince me that he is better than Young. Pinckney is surprisingly good, but cannot push aside Crews in CF. And I haven't seen Wilmington. It would be a great thing if Lile hits his way upward...I lose patience every time an opponent calls in some kid as a pinch-hitter and it always seems that they have two rookies ready to take over. Depth is great.

I'm not thrilled about signing another 30+ year old OF, since they remind me of Dickerson, Rosario, and Winker. Right now, I would love to have Wood in LF, beside Young and Thomas, our very own "older" OF with some power. If a team offers something valuable for Thomas this summer, I'd take it and hope that Crews is ready by the end of August.

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #132: June 07, 2024, 01:44:04 PM »
What would make the most sense is to trade Lane Thomas and Jesse Winker before the deadline to clear room for Wood and Crews, both of which should arguably be in the majors right now (except of course for Wood's injury). So wait until whatever arb-eligible deadline there is and move both Thomas and Winker. Our OF for the next 4-5 years should be Crews in LF, Young in CF, and Wood in RF.

If Hassell shows he's ready then Young or Hassell become OF #4. We'll worry about Pickney and Lile at some point down the road. One or more of Hassell, Pickney, and Lile could be trade bait for a 1B/DH bat.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #133: June 07, 2024, 02:07:01 PM »

Neither JCA nor Slate explain how the Nats can trade Young for a hard-hitting CF.

If you trade Young, you can put Wood in CF and you have your hard-hitting CF. That's my whole point. We have three guys who can play good defense in CF. Two of them are the corner of this rebuild. If they fail, then the rebuild fails. So there is no reason to hang on to Young if you get an even remotely decent offer for him.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #134: June 07, 2024, 02:11:25 PM »
If you trade Young, you can put Wood in CF and you have your hard-hitting CF. That's my whole point. We have three guys who can play good defense in CF. Two of them are the corner of this rebuild. If they fail, then the rebuild fails. So there is no reason to hang on to Young if you get an even remotely decent offer for him.
I would rather keep them all and have good defense at all OF positions. There is no guarantee that Woods and Crews will hit or that Young will continue.  Just be patient.  No need to make moves now other than selling off veterans.

Online varoadking

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #135: June 07, 2024, 03:06:00 PM »
I would rather keep them all and have good defense at all OF positions. There is no guarantee that Woods and Crews will hit or that Young will continue.  Just be patient.  No need to make moves now other than selling off veterans.

This is the right answer...

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #136: June 07, 2024, 03:24:55 PM »


I'm not thrilled about signing another 30+ year old OF, since they remind me of Dickerson, Rosario, and Winker.
That level of talent, the $2 million - $4 million vet looking for a chance to play regularly and recover his career, is not the type of guy I mean when I say there's always LF/1B talent available. I'm talking more the $12-15 million per year, 2-3 year commitment type of veteran. That's a much better expected performance. Could be a disappointment, of course, but much more likely to be an above average offensive talent with playable D.

Offline welch

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #137: June 08, 2024, 12:21:36 PM »
What would make the most sense is to trade Lane Thomas and Jesse Winker before the deadline to clear room for Wood and Crews, both of which should arguably be in the majors right now (except of course for Wood's injury). So wait until whatever arb-eligible deadline there is and move both Thomas and Winker. Our OF for the next 4-5 years should be Crews in LF, Young in CF, and Wood in RF.

If Hassell shows he's ready then Young or Hassell become OF #4. We'll worry about Pickney and Lile at some point down the road. One or more of Hassell, Pickney, and Lile could be trade bait for a 1B/DH bat.

I'm hopeful for Hassell, but he looks more like the 4th OF. Maybe his slugging will recover as the season goes on, and maybe he earns a promotion to Rochester. The OF looks deep, with Pinckney and Lile behind Wood (whenever he plays again), Crews, and Hassell behind them.

Slate says

Quote
If you trade Young, you can put Wood in CF and you have your hard-hitting CF. That's my whole point. We have three guys who can play good defense in CF. Two of them are the corner of this rebuild. If they fail, then the rebuild fails. So there is no reason to hang on to Young if you get an even remotely decent offer for him.

Yes, the Nats can put Wood in CF or Crews if they trade Young and keep Thomas and trade him next year...or even extend him. Thomas might then be that 29-year-old looking for $10-15 million for three years, as JCA suggests.

I keep reminding myself, however, that Young is Del Unser. Good CF who hits without much power. (The AL did not steal bases in those days, so Young, if he played in 1967, might not have been allowed to run as much). My hunch is that Young would have to be part of a package, as Unser was. 



Offline tomterp

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #138: June 12, 2024, 08:30:42 PM »
Such a sad decline.

On June 5, 2017, Ryan Zimmerman had a .372 BA, Daniel Murphy was at .333, Bryce was at .322, and Rendon was at .294.

June 5 2005, Nick Johnson - .333 average, .448 OBP, .530 slugging, .978 OPS

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #139: June 19, 2024, 09:32:24 AM »
I'm a big Young fan but after cooling off a bit I would say his offense isn't quite good enough to warrant a starting spot. It's been suggested that he needs to maintain a ~.330 OBP to make his base running make up for his otherwise lack of offensive production. He's down to .317 now. Stealing has also slowed down along with the rest of the team.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #140: June 19, 2024, 11:12:49 AM »
I'm a big Young fan but after cooling off a bit I would say his offense isn't quite good enough to warrant a starting spot. It's been suggested that he needs to maintain a ~.330 OBP to make his base running make up for his otherwise lack of offensive production. He's down to .317 now. Stealing has also slowed down along with the rest of the team.
hoping it's more of a slump than a return to true talent levels, but yes, he can't start with an OBP that low regardless of his defense. It's not like he makes up for his low OBP with HRs along with his steals.

This would be OK, I suppose, for him to be a 4th OF is Crews or Wood is the CF going forward. Corner OF veteran bats are easy to find even if none of Hassel / Lile / Pinckney etc... grab the last starting OF spot. Heck, an OF of Wood/Crews/ Thomas with Winker as DH may be optimum in August and September if there aren't trades this year.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #141: June 19, 2024, 11:27:20 AM »
So far, his career line after 329 PAs is .258 / .319 / .325, an 85 wRC_,  but with great base running and defense producing a fWAR of 2.2. He's on track for a 3 fWAR first 500 PAs. That's good even with the OBP and ISO. I'd just like it if the OBP were a touch better, near .330, so his offense is closer to the mean in CF (95 wRC+).

FWIW, this is the mean line in CF, MlB-wide, in 2024: .237 / .303 / .381, .302, wCR+ 95. Young is actually well above average in OBP among CFs.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #142: June 19, 2024, 11:44:03 AM »
A great center fielder can go a long way to make up for deficiencies at the plate. As was pointed out though, it's easier to go with it if you have other bats in the lineup to make up for his lack of hitting like the Phillies have.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #143: June 19, 2024, 01:25:50 PM »
Looks like a #4 OF on a winning team. Not bad if you your starters can hit it!

Offline Slateman

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #144: June 19, 2024, 04:36:45 PM »
Is his hand still bothering him?

Offline welch

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #145: June 19, 2024, 04:53:34 PM »
Is his hand still bothering him?

Announcers say it is. Compared it to Trea in '19.

Time for Wood? Time to lose Nunez?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #146: June 19, 2024, 05:03:28 PM »
His average will be off, but maybe it means he's better offensively on his talent.

Unless Wood gets going quick, your choice is Young or Call. I'll take Young

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #147: June 19, 2024, 08:00:11 PM »
I'm not sure who this line was first said about, but Ghost Mears at TalkNats says this about Young's defense:

Quote
two-thirds of the earth is covered by water and the other one-third by Young.

https://www.talknats.com/2024/06/19/two-thirds-of-the-washington-nationals-future-outfield-is-in-ny/

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #148: June 19, 2024, 09:08:39 PM »
:hysterical:


Online imref

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Re: Jacob Young, Bonafide MLB'er?
« Reply #149: June 24, 2024, 12:12:06 PM »
Nusbaum notes:
Quote
How major defensive metrics place Nationals CF Jacob Young after the weekend's series at Coors Field:

OAA: 11 (T1st in MLB; 1st among CF)
Runs prevented: 10 (1st in MLB; 1st among CF)
DRS: 7 (T6th in MLB; T1st among CF)

can someone explain to me how he could be #1 in runs prevented but only tied for 6th in DRS?