The Vegas Athletics

[JCA-CrystalCity]

so Gwinett is in the ATL market but Worcester isn't Boston?

[Dave in Fairfax]

so Gwinett is in the ATL market but Worcester isn't Boston?

I don't know enough about Massachusetts to say. Is it? If so, we can add their MiLB team.

I stopped at AA because I was not sure about a lot of other cities. For instance, Wilmington and Reading are probably part of the Philly market, but I wasn't certain.

I also had an issue with Bowie, since it probably overlaps the Baltimore and DC markets and could be included in both.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I don't know enough about Massachusetts to say. Is it? If so, we can add their MiLB team.

I stopped at AA because I was not sure about a lot of other cities. For instance, Wilmington and Reading are probably part of the Philly market, but I wasn't certain.

I also had an issue with Bowie, since it probably overlaps the Baltimore and DC markets and could be included in both.

if you did this yourself rather than lift it from some source, then it's a really nice effort. I agree there's some line drawing. Worcester is 40 miles west of Boston. That probably compares to Orlando and Daytona, especially when you consider Orlando has a much bigger area within the city limits.

[Dave in Fairfax]

if you did this yourself rather than lift it from some source, then it's a really nice effort. I agree there's some line drawing. Worcester is 40 miles west of Boston. That probably compares to Orlando and Daytona, especially when you consider Orlando has a much bigger area within the city limits.

It's 34 miles from the center of Atlanta to Coolray Field in Gwinnett County, so not too different from Worcester and Boston. I edited the list.

[OfftheBat]

Yeah, neither city is anywhere near big enough for a 2nd team.  St. Louis survives by having limited competition from other sports. 

The owners don't seem that eager to expand, but they're foolish considering how many fast growing markets have no MLB.  Salt Lake in the West and Nashville or Charlotte are probably the best markets.

Agreed, plus IIRC, Salt Lake already has a $900M fund reserved for the construction of a new MLB caliber stadium.

[OfftheBat]

I don't know if TV market is still a good proxy for whether a place is a good basesball market given the changes to how baseball is viewed, but here are the top 50 TV markets with what they have for baseball, AA and up.

1. New York - 2 MLB, 1 AA (EL)
2. Los Angeles - 2 MLB
3. Chicago - 2 MLB
4. Philadelphia - 1 MLB
5. Dallas-Ft. Worth - 1 MLB, 1 AA (TL)
6. San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose - 1 MLB (2 until 2025)
7. Boston - 1 MLB, 1 AAA (IL)
8. Atlanta - 1 MLB, 1 AAA (IL)
9. Washington, DC - 1 MLB, 1 AA (EL) (if we include Bowie)
10. Houston - 1 MLB, 1 AAA (PCL)
11. Detroit - 1 MLB
12. Phoenix - 1 MLB
13. Tampa-St. Petersburg - 1 MLB
14. Seattle-Tacoma - 1 MLB, 1 AAA (PCL)
15. Minneapolis-St. Paul - 1 MLB, 1 AAA (IL)
16. Miami-Ft.Lauderdale - 1 MLB
17. Cleveland-Akron - 1 MLB, 1 AA (EL)
18. Denver - 1 MLB
19. Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne -
20. Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto - 1 AAA (PCL), temporarily 1 MLB
21. St. Louis - 1 MLB
22. Portland, OR -
23. Pittsburgh - 1 MLB
24. Charlotte, NC - 1 AAA (IL)
25. Indianapolis - 1 AAA (IL)
26. Baltimore - 1 MLB
27. Raleigh-Durham - 1 AAA (IL)
28. San Diego - 1 MLB
29. Nashville - 1 AAA (IL)
30. Hartford-New Haven - 1 AA (EL)
31. Kansas City - 1 MLB
32. Columbus, OH - 1 AAA (IL)
33. Salt Lake City - 1 AAA (PCL)
34. Cincinnati - 1 MLB
35. Milwaukee - 1 MLB
36. Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson -
37. San Antonio - 1 AA (TL)
38. West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce -
39. Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek -
40. Birmingham - 1 AA (SL)
41. Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York - 1 AA (EL)
42. Las Vegas - 1 AAA (PCL)
43. Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News - 1 AAA (IL)
44. Albuquerque-Santa Fe - 1 AAA (PCL)
45. Oklahoma City - 1 AAA (PCL)
46. Greensboro-High Point-Winston-Salem -
47. Jacksonville, FL - 1 AAA (IL)
48. Memphis - 1 AAA (IL)
49. Austin - 1 AAA (PCL)
50. Louisville - 1 AAA (IL)

- No idea where Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver or any other Canadian market would be ranked if included above.

Interesting list, I would guess that Toronto would be in the top 10 of this list and Montreal dead last at the bottom of the list. Not sure about Vancouver though; they did lose an NBA team really quickly in the late 90's lest we forget.

[HalfSmokes]

Interesting list, I would guess that Toronto would be in the top 10 of this list and Montreal dead last at the bottom of the list. Not sure about Vancouver though; they did lose an NBA team really quickly in the late 90's lest we forget.

Toronto is top 3.

[IanRubbish]

if you did this yourself rather than lift it from some source, then it's a really nice effort. I agree there's some line drawing. Worcester is 40 miles west of Boston. That probably compares to Orlando and Daytona, especially when you consider Orlando has a much bigger area within the city limits.

I've always thought metro Boston really begins somewhere around the Westborough Papa Gino's. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I've always thought metro Boston really begins somewhere around the Westborough Papa Gino's. 

Worcester is next to westborough, just about,  so you aren't off by much.

[welch]

The move would be to buy the nats and sell the Os to an ownership group from out of town

The move for Angelos would have been to put an AL team in Washington for the competition. That was Clark Griffith's idea that led hm to allow MLB to take the Browns from Bill Veeck and sell them to the Hoffbergers. The BW Parkway was being finished, and The Old Fox hoped fans would drive it, just as Dodger and Giant fans rode the subways.

MLB wanted to contract the Twins and the Expos. A smart move would have taken the Twins to The District. But Angelos...

[welch]

Being meticulous, NYC has no AA team. The Mets A+ team is in Coney Island, the Cyclones. The Yankess have their A+ team in Wappinger's Falls, about 70 or 80 miles up the Hudson.

[varoadking]

Being meticulous, NYC has no AA team. The Mets A+ team is in Coney Island, the Cyclones. The Yankees have their A+ team in Wappinger's Falls, about 70 or 80 miles up the Hudson.

My Yankees fan Son-in-Law's parents live in Wappinger's Falls...

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Being meticulous, NYC has no AA team. The Mets A+ team is in Coney Island, the Cyclones. The Yankess have their A+ team in Wappinger's Falls, about 70 or 80 miles up the Hudson.

is there an AA team in Newark?

[welch]

is there an AA team in Newark?

There was an independent team, re-using the name Newark Bears. There was another independent team, the Jersey Jackals, playing at Yogi Perra Field at Montclair Stadium.

[HalfSmokes]

Bridgewater, NJ probably counts as the same metro area

[OfftheBat]

Toronto is top 3.

Probably true, I guessed that they would be in the top 10 (not top 5) since they operate in Canadian dollars though.

[Dave in Fairfax]

Bridgewater, NJ probably counts as the same metro area

Yes, Somerset County is part of the NYC market.

Here's a TV market map by county, though it does not account for overlap. For instance, Howard County is part of the Baltimore market, even though Columbia is closer to DC than Worcester is to Boston. And PG County is part of the DC market, but still close enough to Baltimore (and the Baysox are an Orioles affiliate), that it's as much, if not more, Orioles country as it is Nats.

https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/television-markets-of-the-united-states.jpeg

[JCA-CrystalCity]

By those maps, Toronto 's AA club in Manchester NH is in the Red Sox TV market proper. That doesn't count Portland, which is a Red Sox market even if it's not in the Boston TV market.

[Dave in Fairfax]

By those maps, Toronto 's AA club in Manchester NH is in the Red Sox TV market proper. That doesn't count Portland, which is a Red Sox market even if it's not in the Boston TV market.

I thought about Manchester when I was going through AA teams. Shoulda checked the map.

Also, I imagine most of New England is Red Sox country, just like Braves country covers a large swath of the South.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The divide in New England is somewhere around New Haven Waterbury and west. Hartford might be like Missouri in the Civil War

[varoadking]

The divide in New England is somewhere around New Haven Waterbury and west. Hartford might be like Missouri in the Civil War

I was in Hartford...maybe 40 years ago when a concrete and steel building under construction collapsed...heard it from the lawyer's office...it was maybe 2-3 blocks away...

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I remember the civic center collapse. New Haven started to get the big concerts. I thought that was the late 70s. Skippy can confirm

[varoadking]

I remember the civic center collapse. New Haven started to get the big concerts. I thought that was the late 70s. Skippy can confirm

That was '75, I think...this was different...it was the parking garage part of a new building...

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I saw The Who in New Haven the same tour as the Cincinnati rush seat concert

[tomterp]

Yes, Somerset County is part of the NYC market.

Here's a TV market map by county, though it does not account for overlap. For instance, Howard County is part of the Baltimore market, even though Columbia is closer to DC than Worcester is to Boston. And PG County is part of the DC market, but still close enough to Baltimore (and the Baysox are an Orioles affiliate), that it's as much, if not more, Orioles country as it is Nats.

https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/television-markets-of-the-united-states.jpeg

PG was always a DC sports hotbed, only the missing 33 years allowed the Orioles to make inroads.  When the Browns moved to Baltimore, the NFL gave them the southern Maryland counties, which had also always been hard-core Redskins (versus Colts).