Author Topic: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade  (Read 5183 times)

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Offline UMDNats

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #100: May 17, 2023, 05:12:23 PM »
Well yeah she probably would stay in DC if he went to Rochester.  Maybe Rizzo can drive her to chemo. Do you think mental health wise she would prefer to have her husband around? Who cares if the Nats win 67 games instead of 65. 

Plus it would be every six days if a 6-man rotation.  Like I said before if we put up with Corbin from 2020-22 we can put up with Kuhl for some of this year.  If he continues to suck after a few more starts then they can make a decision. You guys are acting like we are in the playoff race and this is some major stumbling block. Or that he is blocking some prospect.

I'm all for empathy but they can just as easily put him on a phantom IL like they already have and it has the same effect. Just tell him we're either going to send you down, or you can go on the IL, get a full paycheck and be in DC, and we'll bring you back if we need an arm. But if he gets sent to AAA he's not going to Siberia.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #101: May 17, 2023, 05:59:32 PM »
I'm all for empathy but they can just as easily put him on a phantom IL like they already have and it has the same effect. Just tell him we're either going to send you down, or you can go on the IL, get a full paycheck and be in DC, and we'll bring you back if we need an arm. But if he gets sent to AAA he's not going to Siberia.
You’ve never been to Rochester.

Offline imref

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #102: May 17, 2023, 07:07:30 PM »
Espino got lit up tonight. Couldn’t get out of the second

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #103: May 20, 2023, 01:46:34 PM »
picking through irvin's start v. the tigers:

Quote
Only 38 of those 75 pitches were strikes. Irvin started and ended the outing with a total lack of command. He issued a four-pitch walk in the first and third. He faced 18 batters in all, 11 of whom reached base via hit, walk or error, five of whom reached base in the first alone.

Irvin’s first-inning error came right after McKinstry smacked his solo homer to left-center. Luis García’s error in the third, the second baseman’s first of the season, came when he threw way wide of Dominic Smith, failing to turn an inning-ending double play. Instead, Irvin threw 18 more pitches — including the change-up Baddoo launched for his homer — and didn’t make it out of the frame. And as far as defense went, Keibert Ruiz wasn’t particularly sharp for Irvin behind the plate.

“From the first batter, the home run, he had the guy struck out,” Martinez said of Irvin, implying his final line was misleading because of a missed call in that matchup with McKinstry and the shoddy defense. “I mean, I don’t like … but that ball is pretty much right down the middle of the plate. He gives up a home run, and he could have gotten out of that inning with just one run. A ball back to him, and he just couldn’t make the play. And then the double play ball [to García], that cost him another three runs. That’s a difference in the ballgame.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/05/19/nationals-tigers-jake-irvin/

Offline imref

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #104: May 21, 2023, 09:43:11 AM »
Now 15th in starter ERA in the MLB after passing the Padres.

Offline welch

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #105: May 21, 2023, 01:07:14 PM »
I'm happy with them...except for Irvin/Kuhl/?? spot. But maybe Irvin can struggle along, learning as he goes. Tough level to learn, but Nats are playing games to give fans a 50/50 chance of seeing a win.

Offline catocony

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #106: May 22, 2023, 01:30:17 PM »
The 5th spot is usually a slop fest for even the best teams, so having a variety of guys who are all below .500 with higher WHIP is nothing to really wring hands over. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nationals @ Dodgers, Game 2
« Reply #107: May 31, 2023, 08:48:05 AM »
Bullpen cratering and Irvin isn’t ready for the majors. Just no other options at this point.
eh. If Irvin is exposed and needs to work on stuff, that's what rochester is for. no need for him to go through the beating Adon took. we can put kuhl back in the rotation or call up espino. maybe kuhl to the rotation happens when doo or a reliever is ready.

Offline imref

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Re: Re: Nationals @ Dodgers, Game 2
« Reply #108: May 31, 2023, 08:52:18 AM »
eh. If Irvin is exposed and needs to work on stuff, that's what rochester is for. no need for him to go through the beating Adon took. we can put kuhl back in the rotation or call up espino. maybe kuhl to the rotation happens when doo or a reliever is ready.

Red Wings starters:
Adon: 5.91 ERA / 1.83 WHIP
Peralta: 6.11 / 1.44
Abbott: 6.25 / 1.44
Espino: 4.50 / 1.43
Urena: 9.35 / 2.37
Romero: 5.52 / 1.77

Not a lot of good options....

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #109: May 31, 2023, 09:03:03 AM »
espino or abbott can fill in for irvin if it is better for irvin to be pitching in the minors. if there's a reliever ready, then kuhl or even ward can be moved to the rotation.

Online Slateman

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #110: May 31, 2023, 09:15:51 AM »
espino or abbott can fill in for irvin if it is better for irvin to be pitching in the minors. if there's a reliever ready, then kuhl or even ward can be moved to the rotation.
I just wonder if it would be better for Irvin to be in the bullpen

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #111: May 31, 2023, 10:15:48 AM »
I just wonder if it would be better for Irvin to be in the bullpen
swapping him and kuhl might make sense, but i imagine they still see him as a starter.

Offline catocony

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #112: May 31, 2023, 11:27:52 AM »
Irvin seems really good for one pass through the rotation, so he would probably make a good middle reliever. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #113: May 31, 2023, 01:54:34 PM »
I dunno, five innings and four runs against the Dodgers doesnt sound too terrible to me

Offline Smithian

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #114: May 31, 2023, 03:53:39 PM »
I dunno, five innings and four runs against the Dodgers doesnt sound too terrible to me
Especially a rookie.

I'm very pleased with Jake Irvin so far.

Online Slateman

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #115: May 31, 2023, 04:25:07 PM »
Im not pleased, but its not a disaster.

Offline imref

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #116: June 12, 2023, 05:24:16 PM »
Irvin getting skipped thanks to off days.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #117: June 12, 2023, 06:46:09 PM »
I’m hoping that they don’t destroy his psyche like they did with Joan Adon

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #118: July 03, 2023, 08:56:50 AM »
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/five-things-i-liked-or-didnt-like-this-week-june-30/

Tons of praise for Corbin's last start in Seattle.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/five-things-i-liked-or-didnt-like-this-week-june-30/

Quote
I won’t surgarcoat this – Patrick Corbin has been one of the worst starters in baseball over the past three years. ...

It’s been a swift fall for the former star, made all the more strange because his once-fearsome slider was the main problem last year. But trust me, that slider still pops on its best days. I’m always a little hesitant to say that Corbin is turning the corner – he’s burned me before – but after this Wednesday’s start, I want to believe.
...
There’s a new style under the hood, or possibly some new horsepower. Corbin’s slider was up two ticks, back to the speeds he frequented in the late 2010s. He posted the highest average velocity on his sinker in any start all year while simultaneously throwing sinkers less frequently than in any previous start. He filled in the gaps with extra sliders, but also with extra four-seam fastballs. He threw more four-seamers than in any previous start, and threw them harder than in any previous start.

Those were the only three pitch types he threw; no changeups, no cutters, just fastballs and a mindbending slider. I’d say it was an audition for what Corbin could look like as a reliever, but he threw 102 pitches. Let’s just say that, at only 33, it might be premature to count him out for good. A few more outings like that, and teams might come calling for some starting pitching help (provided Washington chips in some money), something that felt impossible at the start of the year.

I still say the staff will need innings until the young'ns are all ready, so I think the team might even be better off keeping him around and not even eating salary to deal him. That said, there's a ton of high end starters heading towards free agency next off season, so were the team to want one veteran lead dog to go with All Star Gray, Gore, Possibly Skenes, and Mended Cavalli (or Irvin, or Rutledge), Corbin would be less needed(and only the vet for 1 more year).

Online Slateman

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #119: July 03, 2023, 10:29:38 AM »
Hes done this before though. Shows something and then reverts back to being terrible

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #120: July 03, 2023, 11:12:03 AM »
Slider and sinker velocity is something to watch.  both have been down all year. Dunno what the pick up means.

The department of cherry picking says, if you throw out his first 3 starts, you get a 4.35 coupled with a 4.66 FIP, 6.21 K/9 and 2.50 BB/9. That compares to an MLB average of 4.29 ERA and FIP. Saying Corbin is near league average is a few light years better than 2020-22.  Essentially, it gives the team a shot in his starts as opposed to being write-offs.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #121: August 13, 2023, 03:41:18 PM »
eventually, cats use up their 9 lives.

up through 7/19, 2nd start after the all star game, Williams had 20 starts, 98.2 innings, and a 4.38 ERA. Only 2 starts giving up more than 4 runs, and 3 starts giving up 4. Only 5 starts less than 5 innings, and I think 2 were weather related. FIP suggests a bit of luck 5.49, but still a good performance for a 4th or 5th starter filling out a rotation.

Since? 19 innings over 4 starts. 20 runs.  4, 5, 6, 5 runs. Only one start with more than 4.1 innings.

Offline GataNats

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #122: August 13, 2023, 10:59:21 PM »
eventually, cats use up their 9 lives.

up through 7/19, 2nd start after the all star game, Williams had 20 starts, 98.2 innings, and a 4.38 ERA. Only 2 starts giving up more than 4 runs, and 3 starts giving up 4. Only 5 starts less than 5 innings, and I think 2 were weather related. FIP suggests a bit of luck 5.49, but still a good performance for a 4th or 5th starter filling out a rotation.

Since? 19 innings over 4 starts. 20 runs.  4, 5, 6, 5 runs. Only one start with more than 4.1 innings.

He throws 88mph with average breaking pitches.  Get rid of him

Offline NatsLSU

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #123: August 14, 2023, 08:35:45 AM »
Finishing above the Mets and with a better record than the Padres would make this season a success.

Online Slateman

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Re: Rotation 2023 - Dead Cat Bounce Brigade
« Reply #124: August 14, 2023, 08:43:43 AM »
He throws 88mph with average breaking pitches.  Get rid of him
But who pitches in September when Gore and Irvin are shutdown?