Finnegan: more value keeping or trading?

[GataNats]

Iirc, Harvey has better stats.

lol.  Harvey is trash

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Why do you say that?

mostly stat cast things on movement and other measures of stuff, K rates, etc... There's a school of thought that Finnegan has outperformed his stuff and is due to get hammered.

[Natsinpwc]

mostly stat cast things on movement and other measures of stuff, K rates, etc... There's a school of thought that Finnegan has outperformed his stuff and is due to get hammered.

But hasn’t that been true for like three years now?

[Natsinpwc]

Iirc, Harvey has better stats.

Yea but not when closing games. Small sample size of course.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

But hasn’t that been true for like three years now?

reminds me of Dr Jobe telling the Dodgers that Pedro's arm was going to give way and they should deal the little guy. 3 Cy Youngs, a world series, and an HOF career, and a decade plus  later, his arm did give him trouble.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

I don’t care about the expected stats and analytics, I know I feel more comfortable with Finnegan either as a closer or a high leverage set up man.  There should be a team that values Finnegan at least at 85% of the return we got for Harvey.  Since it’s past taking a competitive balance pick back, we should be able to get a 50 prospect like Wallace or a couple 45s we like

[welch]

Keep Finnegan. The Nats got him after the 2019 season. Took three years before he became good enough. No reason to expect that Rizzo can mesmerize a GM to give up a reliever as effective.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Keep Finnegan. The Nats got him after the 2019 season. Took three years before he became good enough. No reason to expect that Rizzo can mesmerize a GM to give up a reliever as effective.

We likely aren’t getting someone as valuable for 2025, but you’d be getting a prospect or a very young guy early in his career pre-arbitration.  So it’s many years of the return versus one more of Finnegan.  I’d expect Rizzo to either target a power 1B/DH type bat that might be blocked in their system, a very raw SP with upside like Herz, or a flame throwing young reliever.

[IanRubbish]

Keep Finnegan. The Nats got him after the 2019 season. Took three years before he became good enough. No reason to expect that Rizzo can mesmerize a GM to give up a reliever as effective.

He's making $5.1 million this season, and will likely get a raise next year.   And we know that's a very important number to this team's ownership.   I like him, but he's probably #2 on the most likely to be gone in a week and a half after Jesse Winker.

[GataNats]

He's making $5.1 million this season, and will likely get a raise next year.   And we know that's a very important number to this team's ownership.   I like him, but he's probably #2 on the most likely to be gone in a week and a half after Jesse Winker.

Floro is definitely gone first.   Hoping we can get a Cubano for Law

[JCA-CrystalCity]

He's making $5.1 million this season, and will likely get a raise next year.   And we know that's a very important number to this team's ownership.   I like him, but he's probably #2 on the most likely to be gone in a week and a half after Jesse Winker.

Floro will get offers and will be dealt to the best offer.

Dude has been so darn consistent since 2020. 1 FIP over 3 (2022 - 3.13) and one ERA over 3.02 (2023 - 4.76). BB% below 7% except 2021 and mostly BABIPs below .280 (last year being the exception). 50+% GB% for his career and 49.3% this year, with pretty consistent HR suppression. Just does not blow you away with Ks.

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

They’re absolutely crazy if they don’t capitalize on this and trade Finnegan for a good prospect.

[OfftheBat]

They’re absolutely crazy if they don’t capitalize on this and trade Finnegan for a good prospect.

What about next year, are they planning to compete? We'd lose a big piece of the 2025 team if we'd trade him now.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

They’re absolutely crazy if they don’t capitalize on this and trade Finnegan for a good prospect.

Of the 4 studs that threw 6 innings of shutout relief last night, I would not be surprised if 3 are gone - Finny, Floro, and Law. Maybe Law doesn't get a good enough offer relative to his value as a multi-inning guy under team control who the Nats are comfortable throwing in higher lev situations. He may be the vet who stays.

[IanRubbish]

What about next year, are they planning to compete? We'd lose a big piece of the 2025 team if we'd trade him now.

They're not planning on losing money.  All the drinkers of Rizzo's "championship cycle" Kool-Aid need to remember they didn't have to deal with $50 million of contract and deferral overhang in the 2010s like they will next season.  Additionally, CJ and Gore are arb-eligible next season.  While I think Boras might convince them to sign Tyler O'Neill or Pete Alonso, there's no chance Mini Me wants to foot a large bill for relief pitchers.  Finnegan would likely top the franchise record of $6 million per for a reliever they paid Doo in 2019, so someone else will be paying that.

[welch]

They're not planning on losing money.  All the drinkers of Rizzo's "championship cycle" Kool-Aid need to remember they didn't have to deal with $50 million of contract and deferral overhang in the 2010s like they will next season.  Additionally, CJ and Gore are arb-eligible next season.  While I think Boras might convince them to sign Tyler O'Neill or Pete Alonso, there's no chance Mini Me wants to foot a large bill for relief pitchers.  Finnegan would likely top the franchise record of $6 million per for a reliever they paid Doo in 2019, so someone else will be paying that.

This is based on fantasy rather than evidence. Remove anything about "mini-me thinks" and "LAC" and "Rizzo kool aid" and the post presents nothing but "Lerners are too cheap to operate a baseball team so Nats fans are fools".

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

What about next year, are they planning to compete? We'd lose a big piece of the 2025 team if we'd trade him now.

You can sign guys to add to the bullpen.  You can’t sign prospects.  You get a prospect(s) now, and use free agency to add to the bullpen.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

He's making $5.1 million this season, and will likely get a raise next year.   And we know that's a very important number to this team's ownership.   I like him, but he's probably #2 on the most likely to be gone in a week and a half after Jesse Winker.

He’s not being traded because of what he’ll make next year.  He’s being traded because he’s 33 and bullpen guys are volatile.  Getting a young guy that fits the competitive window opening up makes more sense to have.

[IanRubbish]

This is based on fantasy rather than evidence. Remove anything about "mini-me thinks" and "LAC" and "Rizzo kool aid" and the post presents nothing but "Lerners are too cheap to operate a baseball team so Nats fans are fools".

If you can’t argue with the substance of what I said, just admit that.  If you want to hold onto infantile beliefs of how modern sports works, then I feel sorry for you.

[GataNats]

He’s not being traded because of what he’ll make next year.  He’s being traded because he’s 33 and bullpen guys are volatile.  Getting a young guy that fits the competitive window opening up makes more sense to have.

He’s 32

[Slateman]

If you can’t argue with the substance of what I said, just admit that.  If you want to hold onto infantile beliefs of how modern sports works, then I feel sorry for you.

Your entire argument is an infantile arguement that has been repeated ad nauseam on this board for over a decade. The idea that the Lerners are so intimately involved in this team that they would tell Rizzo they have to trade a guy  so they dont have to pay him ~8 million bucks is downright foolish.

They dont care about this team so long as Rizzo stays under a certain threshold. They are providing absolutely no input in who should stay and who should go.

Like Welch said, there are a number of valid reasons to trade Finnegan. The Lerners insisting on it because they dont want to shell out an extra 3 million bucks next year is an arguement that lacks any substance.

[Slateman]

He’s 32

He's 33 in like 6 weeks. He's an almost 33 year old with the 6th most innings pitched in the last 4 years. His age and the volatility of relievers with his age and number of innings is a valid concern.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

You can sign guys to add to the bullpen.  You can’t sign prospects.  You get a prospect(s) now, and use free agency to add to the bullpen.

He’s not being traded because of what he’ll make next year.  He’s being traded because he’s 33 and bullpen guys are volatile.  Getting a young guy that fits the competitive window opening up makes more sense to have.

agree with both points. This year, they signed 3 significant bullpen arms - Law, Floro, and JBarnes. Floro has been mostly excellent, while both Law and JBarnes have been good in their roles. MBarnes was a miss, and there's been a few guys flushed through AAA, but the strategy of multiple  vet signings to fill out the bullpen worked pretty well.

[IanRubbish]

The idea that the Lerners are so intimately involved in this team that they would tell Rizzo they have to trade a guy  so they dont have to pay him ~8 million bucks is downright

LOL you offer nothing other than sad attempts to play devils advocate for any argument.  There is a lot of childish fanboy silliness among this fanbase that ignores the financial priorities of the spiritually dead ownership.   When they dumped salary in 2021, there were more than enough fools, including you, willing to drink Rizzo’s Kool Aid as he provided PR cover for their cheapness.  But keep doing your argue with everyone personal attacks, at least you’re entertaining yourself.

[IanRubbish]

He's 33 in like 6 weeks. He's an almost 33 year old with the 6th most innings pitched in the last 4 years. His age and the volatility of relievers with his age and number of innings is a valid concern.

Nonsense.  Plenty of relievers make it into their late 30s.  The problem is his salary which next year will top anything the Lerners have ever paid a reliever