Author Topic: 2022 World Cup GDT  (Read 689 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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2022 World Cup GDT
« Topic Start: November 15, 2022, 04:43:11 PM »
setting this up now. Use this for real-time "game day thread" type comments so that anyone who recording games for later watch know not to look at this thread. 

Try to avoid posting about games in the general "soccer" thread until 3 hours or so after games. 

Offline English Natsie

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #1: November 16, 2022, 02:53:42 AM »
Just to get us in the mood, here's (probably) the greatest soccer anthem of them all...Originally written for England hosting the Euro's, in 1996, so it's now 56 years of hurt. It has been so enduring that many other countries have produced their own versions - for example, Italy fans (rather cheekily) sang their version ('Football's Coming Rome') when they won the Euro's, at Wembley... ;)




(oh yes - and to the entire rest of the planet, except the US, it's football...    ;))

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #2: November 16, 2022, 07:31:29 AM »
USA song?


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #3: November 16, 2022, 08:46:59 AM »
(oh yes - and to the entire rest of the planet, except the US, it's football...    ;))
of course, you know that we got the term "soccer" from England.  Soccer is from the Football Association, which led to the term "asoccer," which was further shortened to "soccer."  Football was originally any sport with the players on foot.  Rugby Football Union was football, too.  The term "soccer" was common in England, perhaps not prevalent, up until the mid-20th century.  It's largely the non-English world that went straight to "futbol," probably because rugby didn't catch on, and the English gradually conformed.  The linked article says "soccer" was popular in England in the 1950s due to the presence of GIs but fell out of favor by the 1980s in part due to objection to US influence. 

https://time.com/5335799/soccer-word-origin-england/

I'd be curious if articles around 1966 used the term "soccer."   TBH, I knew some English camp counselors who played in the early 1970s (one played second division) and they never used the term soccer.  I recall talking to one of them when he asked for the "football" field and I steered him to a small field at camp we called the football field rather than the bigger soccer field.

More links:
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-2783,00.html

https://www.britannica.com/story/why-do-some-people-call-football-soccer

Edit - Britannica says that soccer is more common in countries where other types of football are common, such as Gaelic Football, Aussie Football, Canadian (gridiron) Football, and of course the US. 

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #4: November 16, 2022, 11:48:19 AM »
So what’s the mood in England?  Here it seems generally off the radar and especially since this is peak football (American version) and also basketball and hockey underway. I suppose if the USA wins its opener people might start to pay attention.  Of course Fox will be inundating is with promos for it during the Sunday football games as they have the rights here.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #5: November 16, 2022, 02:31:51 PM »
Off the radar??  But...Senegal!!

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #6: November 16, 2022, 03:12:51 PM »
So what’s the mood in England?  Here it seems generally off the radar and especially since this is peak football (American version) and also basketball and hockey underway. I suppose if the USA wins its opener people might start to pay attention.  Of course Fox will be inundating is with promos for it during the Sunday football games as they have the rights here.

The NFL is pretty protective of its brand. I doubt they allow too much advertising for events that will overlap and the NFL rights mean far more to fox than soccer

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #7: November 16, 2022, 04:47:08 PM »
The NFL is pretty protective of its brand. I doubt they allow too much advertising for events that will overlap and the NFL rights mean far more to fox than soccer
dunno about that.  They've been running WC promos on Sunday broadcasts.  The Santa stuff about wanting a USA win for Christmas.

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #8: November 16, 2022, 05:22:08 PM »
of course, you know that we got the term "soccer" from England.  Soccer is from the Football Association, which led to the term "asoccer," which was further shortened to "soccer."  Football was originally any sport with the players on foot.  Rugby Football Union was football, too.  The term "soccer" was common in England, perhaps not prevalent, up until the mid-20th century.  It's largely the non-English world that went straight to "futbol," probably because rugby didn't catch on, and the English gradually conformed.  The linked article says "soccer" was popular in England in the 1950s due to the presence of GIs but fell out of favor by the 1980s in part due to objection to US influence. 

https://time.com/5335799/soccer-word-origin-england/

I'd be curious if articles around 1966 used the term "soccer."   TBH, I knew some English camp counselors who played in the early 1970s (one played second division) and they never used the term soccer.  I recall talking to one of them when he asked for the "football" field and I steered him to a small field at camp we called the football field rather than the bigger soccer field.

More links:
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-2783,00.html

https://www.britannica.com/story/why-do-some-people-call-football-soccer

Edit - Britannica says that soccer is more common in countries where other types of football are common, such as Gaelic Football, Aussie Football, Canadian (gridiron) Football, and of course the US.
The simple version is this: each country uses the generic term "football" for its predominant version of the sport, most of which were derived from association football, rugby union football or rugby league football. Insisting that the U.S. is somehow "wrong" for its usage is at best misguided. If so, the English are just as "wrong" for using football to mean association football, to the detriment of rugby.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #9: November 16, 2022, 05:38:53 PM »
Though this is the only one where hands are not to be used at all by 10 of the 11 of the players on the field.  Maybe certain players like Marouane Fellaini could be called "headball players"

Offline English Natsie

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #10: November 16, 2022, 06:24:50 PM »
Oh dear. No criticism of the US intended - just a bit of light hearted comment...

It's a curious one, over here. There's always anticipation, for England, but this time it seems to be being tempered both by the controversy of the tournament location, and the drop off in performance since the Euro's. Maybe I'm missing something, but I have the sense that, at the moment, everyone is being more realistic about England's likely chances of actually winning the Cup than in the past. That could change - during the early stages of Italia '90 the team came under withering criticism for its performances, but then once England reached the QF the national mood swung right around, to the point where everyone thought England would actually win it. More excitement in Wales, as it's their first WC Finals since 1958, and playing England on the biggest stage. I maybe regard things somewhat differently, as soccer (I always use that on WNFF out of respect for it being a US forum) isn't my main sport - it's Aussie Rules, MLB and NFL, for me. So, as far as I'm concerned, the main game in the Group is against the US - beyond the group stages, you play who you play; but if the draw goes, as expected, I can't see us getting past France in the QF's.

I suspect that those most hoping for a successful WC, for England, are the Government, given all that's going on here (economy tanking, political turmoil, cost of living crisis, war on the Continent...) in order to try and lift the national mood. If England perform poorly, then that will just add to the national gloom... ;)

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #11: November 16, 2022, 07:42:07 PM »
Wales not since '58 - wow.  And I thought that Canada not qualifying since '86 was rough.  Wales took a lot of scalps in the Euros though.

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #12: November 16, 2022, 07:49:11 PM »
Though this is the only one where hands are not to be used at all by 10 of the 11 of the players on the field.  Maybe certain players like Marouane Fellaini could be called "headball players"
The Encyclopaedia Britannica had a really good article on the evolution of American football from what was essentially a version of rubgy (I can't remember if it was union or league) into the game we know today. I think it was part of the larger article on sports. I've no idea if it is available on-line and I passed my physical copy of the EB on to my brother's children years ago, so I can't check the details.

Offline English Natsie

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #13: November 17, 2022, 04:11:05 AM »
[quote author=Dave in Fairfax link=topic=40456.msg2268611#msg2268611 date=166864615
...the evolution of American football from what was essentially a version of rubgy (I can't remember if it was union or league)
[/quote]

It was league. League is the dominant form of the game, in Northern England, so even in my early days of NFL I could see the similarities. What really transformed the game called American Rugby League into American Football was the introduction of the forward pass, by the QB.

Offline English Natsie

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #14: November 17, 2022, 04:27:25 AM »
An interesting article on our Group opponents...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63588927

Offline English Natsie

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #15: November 17, 2022, 05:19:30 AM »
So reports coming in of England fans being offered payment to act as 'goodwill ambassadors' (ahem...) for Qatar, that Indian ex-pats have been paid to act as pseudo-fans, and that a Danish TV crew's report was interrupted, and stopped, by Qatari security officials. Off to a good start, then... ;)

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #16: November 17, 2022, 06:20:01 AM »
So reports coming in of England fans being offered payment to act as 'goodwill ambassadors' (ahem...) for Qatar, that Indian ex-pats have been paid to act as pseudo-fans, and that a Danish TV crew's report was interrupted, and stopped, by Qatari security officials. Off to a good start, then... ;)

The danish one was aired.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #17: November 17, 2022, 07:39:39 AM »
So reports coming in of England fans being offered payment to act as 'goodwill ambassadors' (ahem...) for Qatar, that Indian ex-pats have been paid to act as pseudo-fans, and that a Danish TV crew's report was interrupted, and stopped, by Qatari security officials. Off to a good start, then... ;)
I love Qatar. Send me.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #18: November 17, 2022, 08:08:43 AM »
Odds for the opener at my site.

Ecuador +135
Qatar + 233
Draw. + 214

Surprised it’s that close. I suppose Ecuador is not a juggernaut.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #20: November 17, 2022, 08:35:29 AM »
[quote author=Dave in Fairfax link=topic=40456.msg2268611#msg2268611 date=166864615
...the evolution of American football from what was essentially a version of rubgy (I can't remember if it was union or league)


It was league. League is the dominant form of the game, in Northern England, so even in my early days of NFL I could see the similarities. What really transformed the game called American Rugby League into American Football was the introduction of the forward pass, by the QB.
FWIW, the reason that American Football has the forward pass has to do with efforts to decrease the violence of the game during the early 20th century.  There were 2 proposals being kicked around - one was to widen the field to spread the players and the other was to allow the forward pass, again to stop scrums.  The pass was settled on because Harvard Stadium had just been built and could not accommodate a wider field.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #21: November 17, 2022, 10:33:25 AM »
I realize the USA is unlikely to ever compete with large countries like Brazil or Argentina (or even France) where soccer is the #1 sport and almost every gifted athlete is guided into soccer as their main sport. It pains me to see the USA ranked behind smaller countries like Belgium or Ecuador. Even if we assume that only a relatively small percentage of the American population enjoys soccer, that subpopulation should be comparable in size to places like Belgium or Ecuador. To me, USA's inability to beat teams like that internationally speaks to mismanagement of our pool of potential star soccer players, not to cultural preferences about which sports to play.


Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #23: November 17, 2022, 11:32:16 AM »

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2022 World Cup GDT
« Reply #24: November 17, 2022, 11:33:24 AM »
I realize the USA is unlikely to ever compete with large countries like Brazil or Argentina (or even France) where soccer is the #1 sport and almost every gifted athlete is guided into soccer as their main sport. It pains me to see the USA ranked behind smaller countries like Belgium or Ecuador. Even if we assume that only a relatively small percentage of the American population enjoys soccer, that subpopulation should be comparable in size to places like Belgium or Ecuador. To me, USA's inability to beat teams like that internationally speaks to mismanagement of our pool of potential star soccer players, not to cultural preferences about which sports to play.
Not an expert but seems to be coaching at the early ages.

No more inexplicable than tennis. Or team handball.