Author Topic: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)  (Read 10573 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25690
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #200: December 11, 2022, 03:09:25 PM »
Seattle, Tampa and Cleveland were all in the bottom 10 in payroll last year and made the playoffs. So it can be done. Have to draft and develop young talent and find some castoffs from other teams. By spending as much as the Mets and some other teams have done you can overcome some bad work in other areas.  Teams like Pittsburgh and KC and now Washington just seem to have given up competing.  If they put more competitive teams on the field they will generate more revenue.  I would favor a payroll minimum as much as a hard cap.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #201: December 11, 2022, 06:48:26 PM »
Seattle, Tampa and Cleveland were all in the bottom 10 in payroll last year and made the playoffs. So it can be done. Have to draft and develop young talent and find some castoffs from other teams. By spending as much as the Mets and some other teams have done you can overcome some bad work in other areas.  Teams like Pittsburgh and KC and now Washington just seem to have given up competing.  If they put more competitive teams on the field they will generate more revenue.  I would favor a payroll minimum as much as a hard cap.

A low budget team can get good, but they can’t stay good. Once their draft pick leave to get paid, the teams regress

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63106
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #202: December 11, 2022, 07:20:33 PM »
A low budget team can get good, but they can’t stay good. Once their draft pick leave to get paid, the teams regress

Cleveland has the 4th most wins in the last decade. Tampa is 5th. St Louis is 3rd. Atlanta is 8th

If you have competitve scouting and player development, you stay good.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #203: December 11, 2022, 08:46:40 PM »
Cleveland has the 4th most wins in the last decade. Tampa is 5th. St Louis is 3rd. Atlanta is 8th

If you have competitve scouting and player development, you stay good.

The braves and cardinals (thanks to their tv deal) are not small market. Cleveland and Tampa haven’t actually won anything

Offline Senatorswin

  • Posts: 1751
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #204: December 11, 2022, 08:57:48 PM »
Seattle, Tampa and Cleveland were all in the bottom 10 in payroll last year and made the playoffs. So it can be done. Have to draft and develop young talent and find some castoffs from other teams. By spending as much as the Mets and some other teams have done you can overcome some bad work in other areas.  Teams like Pittsburgh and KC and now Washington just seem to have given up competing.  If they put more competitive teams on the field they will generate more revenue.  I would favor a payroll minimum as much as a hard cap.

Aren't the Nats doing now what Seattle, Tampa and Cleveland did to get good. I don't think the Nats have given up competing as much as trying to build a good young team through the minors and will fill in where needed when the time is right.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63106
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #205: December 11, 2022, 09:01:38 PM »
The braves and cardinals (thanks to their tv deal) are not small market. Cleveland and Tampa haven’t actually won anything
Neither have been spending like crazy.

Like I said, anyone who wants to be competitive can choose to be. Its certain ownerships groups that are choosing not yo be.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63106
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #206: December 11, 2022, 09:08:30 PM »
Aren't the Nats doing now what Seattle, Tampa and Cleveland did to get good. I don't think the Nats have given up competing as much as trying to build a good young team through the minors and will fill in where needed when the time is right.

The Nationals have clearly given up competing. Half their payroll is two players, one of which is perpetually injured. Their payroll is basically the same as the Orioles

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25690
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #207: December 11, 2022, 09:23:58 PM »
Aren't the Nats doing now what Seattle, Tampa and Cleveland did to get good. I don't think the Nats have given up competing as much as trying to build a good young team through the minors and will fill in where needed when the time is right.
As far as I can tell their only goal is to sell the team.  I have no confidence that the current regime wants to compete at all. 

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #208: December 11, 2022, 10:07:01 PM »
It’ll be interesting to see if they go cheap in the draft

Offline Senatorswin

  • Posts: 1751
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #209: December 11, 2022, 10:18:37 PM »
As far as I can tell their only goal is to sell the team.  I have no confidence that the current regime wants to compete at all.

I have to disagree with you and Slate. It wouldn't of made sense for them to bid for the top free agents this winter. They are trying to build a foundation with Ruiz at catcher, Abrams, Garcia and Meneses in the infield and their top three prospects are outfielders, ALL of which are in the top 34 MLB prospects. They need to hope their young pitchers come through or Stras or Corbin rebound to a certain extent. After they see which of these players come through they can fill in with free agents when the time is right.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25690
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #210: December 11, 2022, 10:32:53 PM »
I have to disagree with you and Slate. It wouldn't of made sense for them to bid for the top free agents this winter. They are trying to build a foundation with Ruiz at catcher, Abrams, Garcia and Meneses in the infield and their top three prospects are outfielders, ALL of which are in the top 34 MLB prospects. They need to hope their young pitchers come through or Stras or Corbin rebound to a certain extent. After they see which of these players come through they can fill in with free agents when the time is right.
Not talking about bidding on the top free agents.  Talking about signing some guys to short term deals for reasonable prices to fill some gaps.  They need one more starter at least and Williams was mostly a reliever last year.  There were and are some cheap options out there to get a veteran innings eater.  If you sign some veterans to one year deals you can also flip them at the deadline.  The last three years the team is basically going at a .333 pace and losing fans by the bundle. 

Offline Senatorswin

  • Posts: 1751
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #211: December 12, 2022, 12:03:37 AM »
Not talking about bidding on the top free agents.  Talking about signing some guys to short term deals for reasonable prices to fill some gaps.  They need one more starter at least and Williams was mostly a reliever last year.  There were and are some cheap options out there to get a veteran innings eater.  If you sign some veterans to one year deals you can also flip them at the deadline.  The last three years the team is basically going at a .333 pace and losing fans by the bundle.

I'm sure they're hoping to get 500 at bats from Abrams, Garcia and Meneses. Whether they do or not probably depends on them staying healthy. They signed a fringe player to compete at third. I'm sure they want to see some more from Robles and Thomas before the kids come up. It's still December. There are still placeholders out there. I don't think you can say they don't want to compete because they haven't signed enough fringe placeholders when there's still a lot of off-season to go.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63106
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #212: December 12, 2022, 06:49:07 AM »
I'm sure they're hoping to get 500 at bats from Abrams, Garcia and Meneses. Whether they do or not probably depends on them staying healthy. They signed a fringe player to compete at third. I'm sure they want to see some more from Robles and Thomas before the kids come up. It's still December. There are still placeholders out there. I don't think you can say they don't want to compete because they haven't signed enough fringe placeholders when there's still a lot of off-season to go.
Its pretty obvious that Rizzo got told to not spend. Which, for a team with no depth, is essentially a mandate to be a 100 loss team. Oh and due to the new CBA, the highest pick we can get in next year's draft is 7th

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25690
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #213: December 12, 2022, 07:00:33 AM »
Its pretty obvious that Rizzo got told to not spend. Which, for a team with no depth, is essentially a mandate to be a 100 loss team. Oh and due to the new CBA, the highest pick we can get in next year's draft is 7th
Yea I mean they could have signed Kyle Gibson for a year at $12 million ( he got $10 million from Baltimore).  Or how about Jose Quintana at $30 million for two years (got $26 million from the Mets). At the current roster the ceiling is probably 90 losses.  They are so far away from the luxury tax line. Plenty of room for a couple mid level free agents that would not break the bank but give the fans a bit of hope. But nope. They want to squeeze every dollar from the franchise before they sell.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #214: December 12, 2022, 09:00:09 AM »
Yea I mean they could have signed Kyle Gibson for a year at $12 million ( he got $10 million from Baltimore).  Or how about Jose Quintana at $30 million for two years (got $26 million from the Mets). At the current roster the ceiling is probably 90 losses.  They are so far away from the luxury tax line. Plenty of room for a couple mid level free agents that would not break the bank but give the fans a bit of hope. But nope. They want to squeeze every dollar from the franchise before they sell.


I’m waiting for them to save $5 million by using their first round pick on a player expected to go in the second round

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 25690
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #215: December 12, 2022, 09:07:03 AM »
Here is what Fangraphs has projected for 2023 payrolls. They are only avoiding the bottom by the Strasburg and Corbin contracts. We have become the Pirates.

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/breakdowns/payroll

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #216: December 12, 2022, 09:39:24 AM »
Here is what Fangraphs has projected for 2023 payrolls. They are only avoiding the bottom by the Strasburg and Corbin contracts. We have become the Pirates.

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/breakdowns/payroll

I'm sure the Lerners are pissed that Strasbburg and Corbin so injured and bad that they're untradeable

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63106
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #217: December 12, 2022, 10:13:25 AM »
I'm sure the Lerners are pissed that Strasbburg and Corbin so injured and bad that they're untradeable
I dont think they're invovled anymore. Nats had a chance to trade Corbin for Ozuna, and/or package Corbin with Soto. Neither happened. I feel like if the Lerners were still involved, they would have forced one of these moves to save money

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21606
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #218: December 12, 2022, 11:30:16 AM »
I dont think they're invovled anymore. Nats had a chance to trade Corbin for Ozuna, and/or package Corbin with Soto. Neither happened. I feel like if the Lerners were still involved, they would have forced one of these moves to save money

I think at the time it appeared like a sale was happening sometime soon. It seems like everyone is realizing that MASN makes the team impossible to value which makes it really hard to get a price let alone finance a deal. Have we ever seen an owner who wanted to sell but couldn't?

Offline Five Banners

  • Posts: 2242
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #219: December 12, 2022, 11:38:31 AM »
I think at the time it appeared like a sale was happening sometime soon. It seems like everyone is realizing that MASN makes the team impossible to value which makes it really hard to get a price let alone finance a deal. Have we ever seen an owner who wanted to sell but couldn't?

The history of Washington baseball ownership remains unreal

Offline imref

  • Posts: 42525
  • Re-contending in 202...5?
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #220: December 12, 2022, 02:56:33 PM »
Sean Manaea to the Giants, 2 years $25 million with an opt-out after the first year. Seems that he would have been a good target for the Nats.

Giants are still after Rondon as well per the SF Chronicle.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 42525
  • Re-contending in 202...5?
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #221: December 12, 2022, 04:37:26 PM »
Braves acquire / free Sean Murphy from Oakland in a 3 team deal. Brewers get: C William Contreras, RHP Joel Payamps, LHP Justin Yeager
A's get: OF Esteury Ruiz, LHP Kyle Muller, RHP Freddy Tarnok, C Manny Piña

Seems like a step back for the Braves

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63106
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #222: December 12, 2022, 04:44:01 PM »
https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1602413432539648007?s=46&t=gPBIEia9TKPxuK3mrrnSuw

Quote
Full trade, per ESPN sources:

Atlanta gets: C Sean Murphy

Oakland gets: LHP Kyle Muller, UT  Esteury Ruiz, RHP Freddy Tarnok, RHP Royber Salinas, C Manny Piña

Milwaukee gets: C William Contreras, RHP Justin Yeager, RHP Joel Payamps

So much for Oakland wanting two MLB players plus

Offline imref

  • Posts: 42525
  • Re-contending in 202...5?
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #223: December 12, 2022, 05:12:05 PM »
I don't get this trade for Atlanta.

Sean Murphy: 28 years old, .250 / .332 / .426, 18 HRs, under contract through the end of the 2025 season

William Contreras: 25 years old. .278 / .354 / .506, 20 HRs, under contract through the end of the 2027 season

Defensive metrics do favor Murphy though.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 42525
  • Re-contending in 202...5?
Re: 2022-23 Off-season (non-Nats)
« Reply #224: December 12, 2022, 05:13:04 PM »
Chris Bassitt to Toronto, 3/$63 million.