Author Topic: Orioles staying put  (Read 914 times)

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Offline imref

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Orioles staying put
« Topic Start: October 02, 2022, 01:28:43 PM »
Baltimore's lease at OPACY ends after next season, but the team can exercise a 5 year option. John Angelos sent out a memo saying the team intends to sign a new long-term lease to remain in Baltimore.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/orioles-planning-to-sign-new-lease-to-remain-in-baltimore.html

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #1: October 02, 2022, 01:33:19 PM »
The question is the length of the new one, as well as the cost and of the penalties for breaking

Offline welch

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #2: October 03, 2022, 08:11:41 PM »
Too bad. Should move to Memphis or St Louis. Change the name back to "Browns".


Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #4: February 01, 2023, 10:06:28 PM »
So they didn't sign the 5 year extension because they want a longer lease and the current lease expires at the end of the 2023 season. There would of nothing stopping the Orioles from signing the extension and then replacing it when they get the long term agreement except that would of tied the Orioles to the stadium for the next 5 years at least.

Seams shaky to me. Saying they want the long term doesn't mean much until they agree on one. Could it be they didn't want to be hamstrung with the 5 years in case they wanted to move?

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #5: February 01, 2023, 10:17:29 PM »
So they didn't sign the 5 year extension because they want a longer lease and the current lease expires at the end of the 2023 season. There would of nothing stopping the Orioles from signing the extension and then replacing it when they get the long term agreement except that would of tied the Orioles to the stadium for the next 5 years at least.

Seams shaky to me. Saying they want the long term doesn't mean much until they agree on one. Could it be they didn't want to be hamstrung with the 5 years in case they wanted to move?

What comes to mind is the businessman stringing his mistress along with the promise of a long-term commitment once the time is right for an agreement is reached with his wife



Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #7: February 01, 2023, 11:02:13 PM »
If they start the process of moving now, it will take 5 years. This means nothing for their long term

Why would it take 5 years to move the Orioles? It didn't take Bob Short 5 years to move to Texas or Calvin Griffith 5 years to move to Minnesota.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #8: February 02, 2023, 07:17:00 AM »
Why would it take 5 years to move the Orioles? It didn't take Bob Short 5 years to move to Texas or Calvin Griffith 5 years to move to Minnesota.
or the Colts to move to indy

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #9: February 02, 2023, 08:50:05 AM »
Why would it take 5 years to move the Orioles? It didn't take Bob Short 5 years to move to Texas or Calvin Griffith 5 years to move to Minnesota.

Just negotiating with a new city takes years, then mlb ownership has to approve the move, then a temporary stadium has to be brought up to mlb standards. This isn’t the 50s where owners can just do whatever they want

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #10: February 02, 2023, 09:23:50 AM »
Just negotiating with a new city takes years, then mlb ownership has to approve the move, then a temporary stadium has to be brought up to mlb standards. This isn’t the 50s where owners can just do whatever they want
how do you know John Angelos isn't talking to Nashville already?  Does their minor league park or Vandy's park meet MLB standards? 

I still think him getting an expansion franchise in Nashville, the league getting ownership of the Os, and then selling the Os is a likely outcome that can include a settlement of the MASN issue.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #11: February 02, 2023, 10:11:52 AM »
how do you know John Angelos isn't talking to Nashville already?  Does their minor league park or Vandy's park meet MLB standards? 

I still think him getting an expansion franchise in Nashville, the league getting ownership of the Os, and then selling the Os is a likely outcome that can include a settlement of the MASN issue.

Would an expansion franchise in Baltimore without the Nat's TV rights be viable? Their territory is constrained by DC to the south, Philadelphia to the north, and Pittsburg to the west.

Offline imref

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #12: February 02, 2023, 10:23:34 AM »
there would be a certain irony to the Orioles moving to Nashville and having to work with the Braves on TV rights.  It really does seem like a no-brainer for the Orioles to move there from Baltimore.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #13: February 02, 2023, 10:28:23 AM »
Would an expansion franchise in Baltimore without the Nat's TV rights be viable? Their territory is constrained by DC to the south, Philadelphia to the north, and Pittsburg to the west.
that gets back to the Baltimore pleading in the NY court of appeals case.  IT would not be an expansion team.  It would be just a new set of owners.  I think it's not a great market, but it has advantages including a pretty good stadium, a built in fan base, traditional rivals, and easy travel distances.  I think it'd be easier for Moore to get money to do any necessary upgrades if he were able to more convincingly say, "we need this to keep the team."  It would be less than Quebec, Oregon, Nevada, or North Carolina would have to shell out.   While the Os are a bit squeezed geographically, they have a lot of appeal in the Hampton Roads area (which is populated enough to be a potential expansion market), and I know they are the team in the York / Lancaster area rather than the Phillies. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #14: February 02, 2023, 10:37:14 AM »
there would be a certain irony to the Orioles moving to Nashville and having to work with the Braves on TV rights.  It really does seem like a no-brainer for the Orioles to move there from Baltimore.
Os to Nashville I think would be less likely than new owners in Baltimore and John Angelos getting the Nashville expansion team, with Timberlake et al as limited partners.  Baseball has to keep the best market after Nashville available for extortion threats leverage for teams like the Rays and the As.  Vegas has a relocation of the As written all over it.  I don't see the As and the Os as similar situations because the As play in a dump and need a new stadium, and they are even closer to the Giants than the Os are to Nats Park.  That leaves Montreal and Charlotte for the Rays to use for "leverage." 

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #15: February 02, 2023, 10:38:41 AM »
The Nats and Os have a pretty massive TV territory, as do the Braves.   Tennessee is currently split between the Braves and Reds, and would be a pretty small territory if that's all they got.

The O's didn't really need to have control of the Nats TV rights.   Being able to bundle them and sell to a large territory with some kind of split should have worked out favorably to both sides in the RSN/carriage fee model where it didn't really matter if people were watching the games.   The O's made a bet that they could grow the carriage fees faster than the average right fees went up, but lost the bet when average rights fees went up faster than expected and carriage fees started a downward trend.

Once the MASN mess and Bally's SN bankruptcies are resolved, it will be curious to see what matters in whatever the new model looks like.  I imagine gate receipts and size of actual fan base who watches games becomes more important than local TV market size.


Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #16: February 02, 2023, 11:41:26 AM »
The Nats and Os have a pretty massive TV territory, as do the Braves.   Tennessee is currently split between the Braves and Reds, and would be a pretty small territory if that's all they got.

The O's didn't really need to have control of the Nats TV rights.   Being able to bundle them and sell to a large territory with some kind of split should have worked out favorably to both sides in the RSN/carriage fee model where it didn't really matter if people were watching the games.   The O's made a bet that they could grow the carriage fees faster than the average right fees went up, but lost the bet when average rights fees went up faster than expected and carriage fees started a downward trend.

Once the MASN mess and Bally's SN bankruptcies are resolved, it will be curious to see what matters in whatever the new model looks like.  I imagine gate receipts and size of actual fan base who watches games becomes more important than local TV market size.


It's hard to tell from that map because of the overlaps, but the two teams impacted by Nashville (Reds and Braves) both have absurdly large TV areas (the Reds' territory stretches down to the GA/TN border but also includes a small part of New York!).  All of TN plus MS, AL, KY, and Western NC would be a good start.  Some of that wouldn't be exclusive, but it's absolutely ridiculous that the Reds have blackout rights in places like Knoxville and Chattanooga.

It'd be easier sledding rights-wise to move the Rays up there, but there's definite space that can be made. 

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #17: February 02, 2023, 12:29:18 PM »
It's hard to tell from that map because of the overlaps, but the two teams impacted by Nashville (Reds and Braves) both have absurdly large TV areas (the Reds' territory stretches down to the GA/TN border but also includes a small part of New York!).  All of TN plus MS, AL, KY, and Western NC would be a good start.  Some of that wouldn't be exclusive, but it's absolutely ridiculous that the Reds have blackout rights in places like Knoxville and Chattanooga.

It'd be easier sledding rights-wise to move the Rays up there, but there's definite space that can be made. 

It's probably a moot point though.   Bally's sportnet is the only game in town in that area and have the Braves, Grizzlies and Predators.   They will likely be gone by the time a team moves there, so it's doubtful they could even get a TV contract, and it would be tough time to launch a new team owned network.   

I imagine it is going to be tough to sell or move any mlb teams until they see what is beneath the rubble of the RSN implosion.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #18: February 02, 2023, 12:45:41 PM »
Orioles aren't going anywhere. Most valuable part of that franchise are the rights to the Nats TV coverage.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #19: February 02, 2023, 12:55:46 PM »
Orioles aren't going anywhere. Most valuable part of that franchise are the rights to the Nats TV coverage.

And the defacto right to essentially never have to make timely payments, arguably

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #20: February 02, 2023, 03:14:18 PM »
The Memphis area is Cardinals territory far more than Braves or Reds.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #21: February 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM »
The Memphis area is Cardinals territory far more than Braves or Reds.

Yeah.  I think the Reds' territory only covers basically from Nashville eastward.  Braves logically should be the same, but logic and MLB aren't too sensible.

Offline welch

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #22: February 06, 2023, 12:29:10 PM »
The Athletic reports that all the suits have been settled and cannot be started again. They are depending on "sources" until everything becomes public.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #23: February 06, 2023, 12:50:15 PM »
The Athletic reports that all the suits have been settled and cannot be started again. They are depending on "sources" until everything becomes public.

That's a bummer. I was hoping for a big ugly public fight.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Orioles staying put
« Reply #24: February 06, 2023, 01:44:07 PM »
The Athletic reports that all the suits have been settled and cannot be started again. They are depending on "sources" until everything becomes public.

There's a filing on the court docket up there now that confirms this is real.