Author Topic: Premature in season speculation about next year's roster  (Read 2167 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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My point about House is more I don't see them as better off temporarizing at 3rd.  I'm just not counting at all on Kieboom or Alu to hold grab that position and be a long term solution, so I want a guy who could play there for a year or two brought in.  aledmys diaz, brandon drury . . .  Think how much fun folks would have with chanting let's go brandon (or Ole Ale).

Offline Section214

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I don't really want to go out and spend tons of money this offseason, at least not with any long-term contracts. It would be nice to get 1 or maybe 2 veteran SPs we can maybe overpay for 1-2 year deals just to field a competitive rotation. Corey Kluber, Michael Wacha, Wade Miley, Matt Boyd, Ross Stripling etc.

It would be nice to have an actual set of 5 guys heading into the season that could theoretically throw 6 innings. We can't just count on Gore - Cavalli - Gray - Fedde - ? with Cavalli and Gore being ? in their own right.. I don't want to see them go big on someone like Manaea or Eovaldi though with some long-term deal.

As for the lineup, I want to go out and overpay Andrew Benintendi. He is not the sexiest option, but he could be our Jayson Werth or what the Braves did with Nick Markakis. Veteran guy who plays a very solid corner OF and gets on base. He could hit 2-3 in our bad lineup while we wait for all the kids to arrive, by the time we are competitive again he can be our 7 hitter while he plays out his contract. I don't want them to throw around huge contracts this offseason, save that for next offseason when we know what holes need to be filled, but I would love to have Benintendi nailed on as one guy in the lineup we can count on.

Oh and the first thing we should do is line up a brinks truck to get Trea back, but I think that ship has sailed...

Offline Section214

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CJ Abrams, SS
Luis Garcia, 2B
$12-15 mil AAV FA, RF
Luke Voit, DH
Meneses/Placeholder, 1B
Yadiel Hernandez, LF
Keibert Ruiz, C
Carter Kieboom, 3B
Victor Robles, CF

Bench:
Meneses / Placeholder FA 1B
Thomas
Adams/Barrera
Kieboom Insurance FA 3B
Glove-first Backup FA 2B/SS


This looks right to me, let's make that FA Andrew Benintendi and we are in lockstep.

I think Kieboom has to get the chance to hold down 3B and I am very optimistic that he could earn the spot. I don't really like the idea of just penciling in Yadi at a corner spot, but a rotation with Thomas and maybe Meneses isn't terrible. Maybe Alex Call gets in that mix too.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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My point about House is more I don't see them as better off temporarizing at 3rd.  I'm just not counting at all on Kieboom or Alu to hold grab that position and be a long term solution, so I want a guy who could play there for a year or two brought in.  aledmys diaz, brandon drury . . .  Think how much fun folks would have with chanting let's go brandon (or Ole Ale).

That's what Franco is/was.

Offline HalfSmokes

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This looks right to me, let's make that FA Andrew Benintendi and we are in lockstep.

I think Kieboom has to get the chance to hold down 3B and I am very optimistic that he could earn the spot. I don't really like the idea of just penciling in Yadi at a corner spot, but a rotation with Thomas and maybe Meneses isn't terrible. Maybe Alex Call gets in that mix too.

That looks like 50 wins

Offline UMDNats

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There is literally zero evidence Carter Kieboom can "hold down 3B." Like, come on people. He is closer to a DFA and release than starting at 3B.

Offline UMDNats

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My point about House is more I don't see them as better off temporarizing at 3rd.  I'm just not counting at all on Kieboom or Alu to hold grab that position and be a long term solution, so I want a guy who could play there for a year or two brought in.  aledmys diaz, brandon drury . . .  Think how much fun folks would have with chanting let's go brandon (or Ole Ale).

Gotta be a platoon option out there in the trade/FA market this offseason for 3B. If Rizzo would ever get creative, that's probably our best move.

Offline imref

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Gotta be a platoon option out there in the trade/FA market this offseason for 3B. If Rizzo would ever get creative, that's probably our best move.

Well, Franco is a FA after this year....

Offline Section214

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There is literally zero evidence Carter Kieboom can "hold down 3B." Like, come on people. He is closer to a DFA and release than starting at 3B.

I think Kieboom gets too much negativity, he was called up way too early and it showed. He showed a little pop at times and had very solid numbers at every level in the minor leagues. His 21 year old season in AAA he slashed .303/.409/.493 with 16 HR and 24 2B in 109 games, that is terrific production. 

While he certainly hasn't shown enough to be nailed down as the 3B of the present/future, he has absolutely done enough that he should be given the first chance at the spot. Go sign a guy with some infield versatility as his insurance for sure, but I hope to see Kieboom really get an extended look next year.

Offline UMDNats

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I think Kieboom gets too much negativity, he was called up way too early and it showed. He showed a little pop at times and had very solid numbers at every level in the minor leagues. His 21 year old season in AAA he slashed .303/.409/.493 with 16 HR and 24 2B in 109 games, that is terrific production. 

While he certainly hasn't shown enough to be nailed down as the 3B of the present/future, he has absolutely done enough that he should be given the first chance at the spot. Go sign a guy with some infield versatility as his insurance for sure, but I hope to see Kieboom really get an extended look next year.

His 2019 AAA is super inflated due to the PCL. Everyone smashes in the PCL.

Kieboom is terrible defensively at 3B, terrible at the dish and at the major league level was one of the worst players in baseball in 2021. -1.0 bWAR in just 62 games!

He's likely just a quad-A guy who can't hit in the majors.

Offline Section214

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His 2019 AAA is super inflated due to the PCL. Everyone smashes in the PCL.

Kieboom is terrible defensively at 3B, terrible at the dish and at the major league level was one of the worst players in baseball in 2021. -1.0 bWAR in just 62 games!

He's likely just a quad-A guy who can't hit in the majors.

I think this is such an overreaction to his relatively small sample size in the majors. He was a consensus top prospect in baseball every step of the way, hit in A ball, hit at Harrisburg and hit in Fresno. I'm not ready to write off a 24 year old just yet.

Offline welch

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Kieboom's stats: .236 average in AAA last season. -1.7 WAR in substantial time in the majors.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kieboca01.shtml

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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That's what Franco is/was.
typo on my part.  I expect them to continue to temporize at 3rd while perhaps giving Alu and Kieboom.  I don't see them as being better off doing more than temporizing.  I'd consider Drury or Diaz to be not long term signees, capable of playing multiple positions, including DH, so I don't see them as blocking Kieboom or Alu if they show anything in the majors.

Offline Slateman

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80+ million for Benintendi screams overpay to me

Offline imref

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No question Kieboom has been a bust at this point. I assume the plan next year is basically the same plan as this past year. Go into camp with him as the presumptive 3B but sign someone else just in case (Franco was plan B). We're not going to be a winning team next year, so give him one more chance at claiming the starting job.

Offline Natsinpwc

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No question Kieboom has been a bust at this point. I assume the plan next year is basically the same plan as this past year. Go into camp with him as the presumptive 3B but sign someone else just in case (Franco was plan B). We're not going to be a winning team next year, so give him one more chance at claiming the starting job.
Yep was not that long ago when he had .900 OPS at Triple A. 2019.  And only 350 big league ay bats so far. Young and controllable are the key words. I am sure of healthy he could have e put up the .600 OPS Franco has this year. Defense needs major improvement though. If they happen to sign a 3B this off-season he can play some LF. Or even 1B.  Or DH. Maybe the year off takes the pressure off of him and he relaxes.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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typo on my part.  I expect them to continue to temporize at 3rd while perhaps giving Alu and Kieboom.  I don't see them as being better off doing more than temporizing.  I'd consider Drury or Diaz to be not long term signees, capable of playing multiple positions, including DH, so I don't see them as blocking Kieboom or Alu if they show anything in the majors.

But why would either of those guys sign with the Nationals?  Unless you're willing to throw like $5m more per year at them and add a year, why would they?  They'll have other choices.

Offline Natsinpwc

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80+ million for Benintendi screams overpay to me
How many years? 4? Probably so.  Not my money though and they have plenty of room to sign him at that. Castellanos is the poster boy for bad 4 year $20 million per year contracts. Always has been a good hitter but has fallen off the cliff this year. At least Bentendi has soem defensive flexibility.

Offline Natsinpwc

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But why would either of those guys sign with the Nationals?  Unless you're willing to throw like $5m more per year at them and add a year, why would they?  They'll have other choices.
I think this is what people don’t get when you are a bottom feeder. Remember when folks thought the Nats were getting Texeira. They will use the Nats to drive up prices. Need to find bargain basement guys.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Unless you're willing to throw like $5m more per year at them and add a year, why would they? 
I'd do it.  I think it's better money than a Markakis contract for Benintendi. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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I'd do it.  I think it's better money than a Markakis contract for Benintendi.

That's because there's no albatross potential.  But Benintendi also ain't going to a bad team for four years.  He just got off one and knows all to well what it's like.

Offline Slateman

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Theres no reason not to play Kieboom a substantial portion of next season, if he's healthy. Theres no one else thats realistically available. He's hit at every other level and has shown flashes in the big leagues.

Rolling with a Franco/Duffy level is simply a waste of time. Plenty of replacement fodder in this organization between Alu and Noll.

Offline Slateman

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I'd do it.  I think it's better money than a Markakis contract for Benintendi. 
That's because there's no albatross potential.  But Benintendi also ain't going to a bad team for four years.  He just got off one and knows all to well what it's like.

Benintendi is going to command at least 5 years. He has only a hit tool and has hit .300 once. He's Adam Eaton at the plate, but defensively limited to LF or DH.

Offline Smithian

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That looks like 50 wins
My goal next year is for the Nationals to win 63 games and to not make any FA signings/trades that will last more than a couple years. Next season is about trying to stabilize he pitching staff while getting a season closer to see if our crowded low minors hitting group starts translating positiely into our barren upper minors.

My draft lineup reflects a goal to be in contention for 63 wins while accomplishing the other goals. If the pitching is not a disaster and the MLB worst defensive and basepath team gets even mildly better, they could get to 63 wins.

Offline Section214

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80+ million for Benintendi screams overpay to me

I would do that in a heartbeat. We have no one else to pay for the next four years, might as well overpay to have at least one solid guy in the lineup every day while the young guys come up. I don't want to sign anyone to very long deals next offseason, except Trea who is a pipedream, but I would gladly pay way too much AAV short term to get a guy like Benintendi.