Author Topic: Break up the Juggernaut: 2022 Trade Deadline thoughts, & rumors  (Read 4958 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 5105
The article has other teams. But, if the season ended today, the Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, and Rays would all make the playoffs.

Not the Talk Nats one. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 5105
I took a look at 1b and DH fWAR to see what other contenders might be interested in Bell beyond the ones mentioned as looking for bats (that is, beyond TB and Boston mentioned by MLB, and TOR mentioned by Talk Nats). 

Yuli Gurriel has not had a good year, but has turned it around in June and early July.  Given Houston's safe lead, I'd say they aren't looking for a guy who might not even be an upgrade (and certainly not an upgrade at DH). Seattle already pulled the trigger on Carlos Santana to go with Ty France, so I don't see going deeper into hock.  They probably are in a bunch with the 4th AL East team but ahead of the ChiSox and Guardians for the last wild card slot.  My guess is that with Eloy back, the ChiSox will run with Abreu and Vaughn at 1st and DH.  As for the Guardians, I'm not sure they go for it, but Bell would be an upgrade over Franmil Reyes. The Twins have a pretty flexible roster and probably could find a way to play an extra bat if they picked one up.

In the NL, I don't know if we'd trade with the Mets, and that's been worked over in this thread.  Beyond that, I suppose the Phillies, Cards, Giants, and Marlins are the marginal contenders, with the Marlins included mainly based on record to date rather than projections.  Cards probably sink or swim with Pujols at this point and don't look for a DH to go with Goldy.  Giants have Belt back, but maybe should be looking for another bat. 

In sum, I really do think the likeliest landing spot would be with one of the 3 or so non-Yankee AL East contenders, plus maybe the Twins or Giants (or even the Guardians).  This make sense?

The Twins are the really obvious one.  They're too righthanded, they could use an upgrade at DH, and Arraez can move off 1B to any one of a couple other spots where he'd be better than the present occupant.

I'll ignore the NL East, but if the Cardinals are willing to sit Pujols, they're another obvious candidate.  They're also too righthanded.  The Brewers could also use help at either 1B or DH.  So could San Diego, especially if they have any notions of catching LA. So could the Giants if they want any shot at the playoffs.  Hell, I wouldn't knock out the Dodgers as a DH-only one.

I tend to think TB is most likely, yes, but there are like 8-10 reasonable options without much squinting.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 22207
The Phillies could go after Bell for 1B and then put Hoskins at DH.  Then hope for the best offensively and defensively with Castellanos in RF.  They don’t have a deep system so not sure what would be worth it. Cant see them giving up a top pitcher.  Maybe trade for their Luis Garcia so Nats would have 2.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Except Harper is coming back and will be the DH.

If the Phillies are making a trade, its for pitching.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 22207
Except Harper is coming back and will be the DH.

If the Phillies are making a trade, its for pitching.
It’s not for sure Harper will be back and at least not until September.

Phillies are 5th in the NL in ERA and the bullpen is 7th. Everyone needs a reliever. Need for a starter depends on the health of Eflin and Suarez.

They actually need a CF but those don’t grow in trees. Victor?


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 34840
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
o
The Twins are the really obvious one.  They're too righthanded, they could use an upgrade at DH, and Arraez can move off 1B to any one of a couple other spots where he'd be better than the present occupant.

I'll ignore the NL East, but if the Cardinals are willing to sit Pujols, they're another obvious candidate.  They're also too righthanded.  The Brewers could also use help at either 1B or DH.  So could San Diego, especially if they have any notions of catching LA. So could the Giants if they want any shot at the playoffs.  Hell, I wouldn't knock out the Dodgers as a DH-only one.

I don't see the Cards sitting Pujols.  Also, Yepez has been hitting well vs righties.  I could see the Brewers.  San Diego isn't a marginal playoff team, but they probably need more than just adding Tatis to go deep.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
It’s not for sure Harper will be back and at least not until September.

Phillies are 5th in the NL in ERA and the bullpen is 7th. Everyone needs a reliever. Need for a starter depends on the health of Eflin and Suarez.

They actually need a CF but those don’t grow in trees. Victor?


Harp will be back. Theyll count on it.

They already have the equivalent of Robles in a couple players.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
I don't see the Cards sitting Pujols.  Also, Yepez has been hitting well vs righties.  I could see the Brewers.  San Diego isn't a marginal playoff team, but they probably need more than just adding Tatis to go deep.
Pujols is effectively a platoon DH right now

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
The "dream" scenario for me would be the Marlins wanting to go for it and trade Jake Eder and Cody Morrisette for Josh Bell

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 22207
https://www.cleveland.com/guardians/2022/07/what-im-hearing-about-guardians-roster-approach-to-second-half-of-season-terry-pluto.html

Guardians move Reyes and that opens up trading for Bell and/or Cruz
Of course the article says they are going to be sellers and not buyers.  I guess if they have some improved results and one of the AL East teams starts to regress they might change their minds.

Online Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 22207
The "dream" scenario for me would be the Marlins wanting to go for it and trade Jake Eder and Cody Morrisette for Josh Bell
That would be quite a haul. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 5105
That would be quite a haul. 

Yes, but it looks like a lot more from the Nats' side than it does from the Marlins.  They have a ton of pitching prospects and Morrisette can't play anywhere but 2B, which puts him behind any SS prospect who can also hit. 

Those might not be the specific guys I'd ask for from Miami (doubt they'd trade Eder with his upside), but it's the right kind of ask I'd make of them and any other deep system that comes calling (cough, Tampa Bay).

Offline hotshot

  • Posts: 1366
Yes, but it looks like a lot more from the Nats' side than it does from the Marlins.  They have a ton of pitching prospects and Morrisette can't play anywhere but 2B, which puts him behind any SS prospect who can also hit. 

Those might not be the specific guys I'd ask for from Miami (doubt they'd trade Eder with his upside), but it's the right kind of ask I'd make of them and any other deep system that comes calling (cough, Tampa Bay).
Marlins have had favorable draft position for years but ... what was/is TB's secret of success? What has prevented the Nats from even getting within hailing distance of the Rays' draft ability? And, who's holding who's feet to the fire here? Hopefully, new owner(s) will be more demanding.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Marlins have had favorable draft position for years but ... what was/is TB's secret of success? What has prevented the Nats from even getting within hailing distance of the Rays' draft ability? And, who's holding who's feet to the fire here? Hopefully, new owner(s) will be more demanding.
They identify one or two skillsets and develop the crap out of them. And they don't go beyond it. Like, if they had Fedde or Adon, neither would have been given this much time to be starting pitchers. The Rays would have turned them in to mulit-inning relievers.

Whats preventing the Nats is Mike Rizzo

Offline hotshot

  • Posts: 1366
They identify one or two skillsets and develop the crap out of them. And they don't go beyond it. Like, if they had Fedde or Adon, neither would have been given this much time to be starting pitchers. The Rays would have turned them in to mulit-inning relievers.

Whats preventing the Nats is Mike Rizzo
And, scouting was supposedly his strong suit.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
And, scouting was supposedly his strong suit.
Nats are great at scouting. The problem has been development.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 11158
  • Sunshine Squad 2022
They identify one or two skillsets and develop the crap out of them. And they don't go beyond it. Like, if they had Fedde or Adon, neither would have been given this much time to be starting pitchers. The Rays would have turned them in to mulit-inning relievers.

Whats preventing the Nats is Mike Rizzo
To be fair, Mike Rizzo has a World Series under his belt. The Rays don't.

But damn I wish we could steal their player development people

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 5105
To be fair, Mike Rizzo has a World Series under his belt. The Rays don't.

But damn I wish we could steal their player development people

If the Rays could spend $70 million on three starters (or whatever Scherzer/Strasburg/Corbin was paid in 2019), I have little doubt they would win a championship or four.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 60290
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
To be fair, Mike Rizzo has a World Series under his belt. The Rays don't.

But damn I wish we could steal their player development people
Thats really what annoys me the most about the offseason office "shake up." I really wanted Rizzo to go into an organization like the Dodgers and grab someone to revamp our analytics and player development.

The scouting is excellent. Its what happens to the talent that I want to see improvement on.

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 5313
Thats really what annoys me the most about the offseason office "shake up." I really wanted Rizzo to go into an organization like the Dodgers and grab someone to revamp our analytics and player development.

The scouting is excellent. Its what happens to the talent that I want to see improvement on.


Fully agreed. The scouting of draft eligible players who were basically finished products worked out quite well (Strasburg, Harper, Rendon), but the ones who scouted well but needed development did not work out so great.

Offline Lazarchick 31

  • Posts: 132
What do we think the realistic get for Bell is going to be?  Are we thinking someone between the Ruiz/Grey level?  Less?

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 5313
What do we think the realistic get for Bell is going to be?  Are we thinking someone between the Ruiz/Grey level?  Less?


I'm hoping for one undeniable top 75 prospect.

Offline GburgNatsFan

  • Posts: 22135
  • Let's drink a few for Mathguy.
Or even the Braves, another team from a mid-market city with large-market performance.

Thats really what annoys me the most about the offseason office "shake up." I really wanted Rizzo to go into an organization like the Dodgers and grab someone to revamp our analytics and player development.

The scouting is excellent. Its what happens to the talent that I want to see improvement on.

Offline English Natsie

  • Posts: 288
  • It's baseball, Jim, but not as we know it...
Any thoughts as to which game is likely to be Bell's last as a National?