Author Topic: Nats have exercised their option on Davey and Rizzo  (Read 925 times)

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Online Slateman

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Offline Smithian

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With the ownership transition, I support this decision.


Offline welch

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According to a post in Washington DC Baseball Yesterday and Today, the Nats have exercised the option on Mike Rizzo and Davey Martinez.

https://twitter.com/masnNationals/status/1543290102939615235?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Offline Senatorswin

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Considering the situation the Nats are in now this is fine but Davey is not the solution long term. The only good run he had was when he went 19-31 in 2019 with serious talent to the world series. I believe a large part of the turnaround was the leadership of Geraldo Parra and especially Howie Kendrick. Bryce Harper said losing Kendrick's leadership in 2018 was a major blow to the Nats. So when the Nats are ready to contend again I would prefer it be with another manager.

Online Slateman

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Considering the situation the Nats are in now this is fine but Davey is not the solution long term. The only good run he had was when he went 19-31 in 2019 with serious talent to the world series. I believe a large part of the turnaround was the leadership of Geraldo Parra and especially Howie Kendrick. Bryce Harper said losing Kendrick's leadership in 2018 was a major blow to the Nats. So when the Nats are ready to contend again I would prefer it be with another manager.

So, basically, the only time Martinez has had a healthy and competitive team, he won a world series. And he's not the guy because ... ? But someone Parra and Howie Kendrick were the reason (even though Howie was part of the team in 2018 ....?)

If the Nats had hired Martinez instead of Baker in 2016, they'd have multiple championships.

Offline Duke of Earl

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If the Nats had hired Martinez instead of Baker in 2016, they'd have multiple championships.

If the Nats had retained Baker instead of letting him go and hiring Martinez, they'd have multiple championships.

Offline Duke of Earl

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So, basically, the only time Martinez has had a healthy and competitive team, he won a world series. And he's not the guy because ... ?
he's not the guy because ...   
He had nothing to do with developing a healthy and competitive team.  Nothing at all.  The job of a manager at this point is to develop a competitive team.  Might take a couple or three years but the time to start this development is now (actually a year ago). It doesn't happen by magic, I mean you don't just go through the motions for two years and then a competitive team magically materialized.  I can tolerate the losing, but not the crappy play. That's on the manager.  I just want to see incremental improvement. 

Online Five Banners

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If the Nats had retained Baker instead of letting him go and hiring Martinez, they'd have multiple championships.

Sammy Solis going for the 5-peat

Online Slateman

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If the Nats had retained Baker instead of letting him go and hiring Martinez, they'd have multiple championships.
Lmao, Baker sucks in the playoffs.

He let Sammy Solis pitch meaningful playoff games. Thats Baker's level of playoff management. We NEVER would have won in 2019 with Baker. Baker had 95+ win teams filled with All Stars and a great bullpen. Couldnt win a five game series.

Online Slateman

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he's not the guy because ...   
He had nothing to do with developing a healthy and competitive team.  Nothing at all.  The job of a manager at this point is to develop a competitive team.  Might take a couple or three years but the time to start this development is now (actually a year ago). It doesn't happen by magic, I mean you don't just go through the motions for two years and then a competitive team magically materialized.  I can tolerate the losing, but not the crappy play. That's on the manager.  I just want to see incremental improvement. 
Its not the manager's job to develop a team. Its the General Manager's job. Thats why you have a farm system with dozens of coaches. Martinez is stuck with a bunch of players who are eithet washed up or didnt develop in Rizzo's farm system.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Its not the manager's job to develop a team. Its the General Manager's job.
I'm not talking about acquisition, whether by draft, trade, or free agent signing.  I'm talking about development after the player is acquired.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Sammy Solis going for the 5-peat
Baker made bad decisions in the playoffs.  Some of them horribly bad.

 Let me put it this way.  If he had remained manager I think they would have made post season 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022.  (In addition to the 2016 and 2017 teams.) Maybe not all five, but probably four.  They'd have won it all at least once, even with some bad decisions.

Offline Senatorswin

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So, basically, the only time Martinez has had a healthy and competitive team, he won a world series. And he's not the guy because ... ? But someone Parra and Howie Kendrick were the reason (even though Howie was part of the team in 2018 ....?)

If the Nats had hired Martinez instead of Baker in 2016, they'd have multiple championships.

Howie only played 40 games in 2018 because he popped his achilles tendon playing left field. After the season Harper said he thought a major reason the Nats didn't do better was because they lost Howie's leadership. Davey has shown zero ability to win except the extended run in 2019.

2017-97 wins. 2018 - 82 wins.

Online Slateman

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Baker made bad decisions in the playoffs.  Some of them horribly bad.

 Let me put it this way.  If he had remained manager I think they would have made post season 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022.  (In addition to the 2016 and 2017 teams.) Maybe not all five, but probably four.  They'd have won it all at least once, even with some bad decisions.
Lmao, Baker gonna somehow keep Strasburg healthy and make Gio not suck? Yeah, okay

Online Slateman

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Howie only played 40 games in 2018 because he popped his achilles tendon playing left field. After the season Harper said he thought a major reason the Nats didn't do better was because they lost Howie's leadership. Davey has shown zero ability to win except the extended run in 2019.

2017-97 wins. 2018 - 82 wins.
Martinez has the most wins of any manager in team history.

Online Slateman

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I'm not talking about acquisition, whether by draft, trade, or free agent signing.  I'm talking about development after the player is acquired.
Thats literally the job of a farm system.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Thats literally the job of a farm system.
Yes when a player makes it to the majors one assumes he's been developed to play in the majors.  But when a large number of players play like crap - throw to the wrong base, overthrow the cutoff, do not get into position to take a cutoff,  misplay ground balls....  and so on ... it's on the manager.  You want to blame it on the GM for bringing them up? I blame it on the manager for not keeping them focused and sharp.

Offline van lingle mungo

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I'm not talking about acquisition, whether by draft, trade, or free agent signing.  I'm talking about development after the player is acquired.

It's up to the manager to make the team click, piece by piece, not to develop the pieces. That gets done at the lower levels like Slateman pointed out. The manager positions his pieces, makes in-game decisions, oversees the clubhouse,  etc.. A manager might be instrumental in helping a player at times, but a big league player becomes a big league player because he's already developed to be functional at that level.....hopefully anyway. Not trying to split hairs or argue semantics btw.

Online Slateman

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Yes when a player makes it to the majors one assumes he's been developed to play in the majors.  But when a large number of players play like crap - throw to the wrong base, overthrow the cutoff, do not get into position to take a cutoff,  misplay ground balls....  and so on ... it's on the manager.  You want to blame it on the GM for bringing them up? I blame it on the manager for not keeping them focused and sharp.
Or they're just not very good. I remember plenty of bad baseball under Dusty

Offline Senatorswin

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Martinez has the most wins of any manager in team history.

LOL, really. He won 82 on a team that won 97 the year before. Three of the other four years he had horrific winning percentages. You can try to make a case of why but not he's a winning manager.

Online Slateman

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LOL, really. He won 82 on a team that won 97 the year before. Three of the other four years he had horrific winning percentages. You can try to make a case of why but not he's a winning manager.
How many world series did the manager before him win? Zero. Martinez took an 82 win team and turned them in to world champions.

Why? Because unlike Dusty Baker, Martinez knows how to win in the postseason. By not pitching your scrubs in meaningful situations.

Online Mattionals

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Jeez, lots of disdain for Davey here. Listen, you are all fans and I'm pretty sure it's our job to criticize the manager, regardless if they win it all or not. Saying Baker would have done better is also laughable, especially since his track record in the postseason is what it is.

Also, complaining about the play on the field, is Dusty Baker going to magically make these scrubs better? Good management doesn't take a 35 grade player and turn them into a 65 grade player, or even a 40 grade player. You just can't blame any manager for the rosters since 2020. The failure is within the organization to develop more young players, and especially the stall outs in development of Kieboom, Robles, and basically every pitcher called up.

Offline Kevrock

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Hi, I like both Davey and Baker. LOL at the Davey hate, swing and miss me with this nonsense.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Jeez, lots of disdain for Davey

Davey was a great baseball man, a great in-season manager, but, similar to Dusty,  made poor decisions in the postseason.  In any case I'd take Davey over Dave right now.

So  no, no disdain for Davey from me.  For Dave, yes.