Author Topic: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?  (Read 568 times)

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Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #25: May 22, 2022, 08:32:31 PM »
The question posed here is equivalent to asking whether horse manure emits a more pleasant odor than chicken manure or vice versa. From my standpoint though, I'll take whichever odor is wafting from this team over the stench of 2009. Anything associated with the Manny Acta tenure is just too painful to call to mind.

The last sentence of this is so accurate that it makes me want to empty all the alcohol in my house into one drinking vessel and then chug it all.

Online van lingle mungo

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #26: May 22, 2022, 08:49:55 PM »
The last sentence of this is so accurate that it makes me want to empty all the alcohol in my house into one drinking vessel and then chug it all.

Also worth noting - Riggleman took over midstream that year and posted a record that was only 10 or 12 games under .500.
And....When John Lannan is the ace of your staff, your problems  are worse than imaginable. Drink up!

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #27: May 23, 2022, 09:16:47 AM »
In thinking about the lineups, I think 2022 has two multi year regulars who are stars or potential all star  candidates in Soto and Ruiz. I am sold on the latter.  09 only had #11. That's a big difference. If Garcia comes up and can be a league average regular, then we are more like 2010 than 09

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #28: May 23, 2022, 09:40:09 AM »
I think the big difference is that lots of casual fans back then thought that guys like Lastings Milledge and Willy Mo and Elijah Dukes were good. Now fans have seen good teams and no better. Those teams were bad. This team is bad. It does seem there are more really “bad” teams in baseball now. Even with an expanded wild card.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #29: May 23, 2022, 09:48:20 AM »
I think the big difference is that lots of casual fans back then thought that guys like Lastings Milledge and Willy Mo and Elijah Dukes were good. Now fans have seen good teams and no better. Those teams were bad. This team is bad. It does seem there are more really “bad” teams in baseball now. Even with an expanded wild card.

To be fair, Dukes wasn't a bad player, or at least wouldn't have been had he had time. He put up a 2-WAR season in 81 games at 24. His problems were primarily off the field.  But you're bang on about the other two.  Milledge was amazing: for a supposedly five-tool prospect, he wasn't good at anything.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #30: May 23, 2022, 11:12:56 AM »
What were Suarez and Winker traded for? 

Meh, we probably should not betrading for vets. But darn, drives me nuts to see cheap signees I was interested in doing well elsewhere

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #31: May 23, 2022, 12:57:09 PM »
What were Suarez and Winker traded for? 

Meh, we probably should not betrading for vets. But darn, drives me nuts to see cheap signees I was interested in doing well elsewhere

Three prospects, two of whom are in the majors and the other of whom is a fringe top-100 prospect (I'm not sold, having seen him in person twice).  He's a 6'6" lefty who's 24 and doing decently in AA.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #32: May 23, 2022, 01:32:31 PM »
Nice haul.


Online van lingle mungo

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #33: May 23, 2022, 02:02:15 PM »
To be fair, Dukes wasn't a bad player, or at least wouldn't have been had he had time.

Biggest waste of talent ever. Just to put into perspective how quickly time flies, have a look at this. Jr. seems like a good kid. He's getting set to play JC ball at San Jacinto....He's not cut like his Daddy, he's got some chunk to wear off. Best wishes to the kid. It couldn't have been easy having a psychopath for a father.




Offline imref

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #34: May 25, 2022, 09:21:17 AM »
4th in the MLB in batting average (.251), 29th in starting pitcher ERA (5.15). Had Rizzo gone after a couple of starters, we could have contended for a wild card.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #35: May 25, 2022, 09:36:59 AM »
4th in the MLB in batting average (.251), 29th in starting pitcher ERA (5.15). Had Rizzo gone after a couple of starters, we could have contended for a wild card.
well, still a couple of bats short.  Bottom third in wOBA and wRC+.  OBP is close to middle of the pack, but no pop.  But the deals were there. Even without a major SS signing, another $20 million commitment could have gotten Winker and Suarez and a reliable arm like Tyler Anderson. IF there was a budget, then do those moves and don't sign Cruz. 

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #36: May 25, 2022, 10:33:22 AM »
You have to wonder if he got the stop sign from the Lerners after the Cruz signing.

well, still a couple of bats short.  Bottom third in wOBA and wRC+.  OBP is close to middle of the pack, but no pop.  But the deals were there. Even without a major SS signing, another $20 million commitment could have gotten Winker and Suarez and a reliable arm like Tyler Anderson. IF there was a budget, then do those moves and don't sign Cruz.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #37: May 25, 2022, 11:44:24 AM »
You have to wonder if he got the stop sign from the Lerners after the Cruz signing.

I did not criticize the signing at the time because I did not think it would be all they would do, but to sign a DH and just stop trying to fill other holes needed to compete seems like a waste.

We kicked around what it would have been for the Nats to offer a comparable deal to for Suarez and Winker, and it didn't strike us as outrageous (some sort of combo of Carillo, Fedde, and a position player like Thomas - https://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=39751.750;msg=2242214), and Tyler Anderson was would not have cost much either (Tim Dierkes thought he was a good fit).  Tepera signed for more than I thought, and of course Story was probably too big of an outlay in terms of years and money, but you could have held a slot for Kieboom, Robles, and not blocked Garcia if you had pulled in  few more guys.  Would you have loved a lineup with Yadi and Winker splitting LF and DH, Suarez either at short or 3rd, and Ruiz, Cesar, Bell, Ruiz/Adams and Soto? Still lets you play Robles and leaves a spot for presumptively Kieboom or maybe Garcia. 

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #38: May 26, 2022, 06:08:14 PM »
Reds crushed the Cubs today so we can essentially tie them with a loss tonight.

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #39: May 27, 2022, 10:31:49 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/05/27/washington-nationals-world-series-collapse/

Nats are in the running for the worst record for the 3 year period after a WS win. Must lose fewer than 97 games to not do it.  Would be the 4th team to have 3 losing seasons the year after winning the WS. Others include the 1918 Red Sox, the 1993 BJs, and the 1997 Marlins.  Only the Marlins went back to the WS within a decade. 

Online Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #40: May 27, 2022, 10:37:38 AM »
The Jays won back-to-back series so they didn't have the stamina for any more cigars and champagne 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/05/27/washington-nationals-world-series-collapse/

Nats are in the running for the worst record for the 3 year period after a WS win. Must lose fewer than 97 games to not do it.  Would be the 4th team to have 3 losing seasons the year after winning the WS. Others include the 1918 Red Sox, the 1993 BJs, and the 1997 Marlins.  Only the Marlins went back to the WS within a decade. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #41: June 15, 2022, 09:14:32 AM »
As of today, the Nats winning % is lower than any prior season-ending percentage.

2022 - .359 (23-41) - in progress
2009 - .364 (59-103)
2008 - .366 (59-102)

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #42: June 15, 2022, 09:21:13 AM »
https://www.tankathon.com/mlb

Royals and As say hold by beer.

Offline NatsLSU

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #43: June 15, 2022, 10:19:14 AM »
Truly pathetic how bad this team is. Can we get rid of the Lerners and Rizzo? Rizzo is basically George McPhee that got a title. Thinks he is the smartest guy in the room. Can’t wait til that clown is gone.

Offline English Natsie

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #44: June 15, 2022, 11:19:27 AM »
Not sure if yesterday was totally representative - poor Tetreault; talk about being left hung out to dry. Otherwise, it was pretty embarrassing stuff... :roll:

Offline Air Desmond

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #45: June 16, 2022, 08:21:45 PM »
I’ve been following the Nats since day 1, I can’t remember a team getting dominated like this on a daily basis. The Braves just had a HR derby at Nats Park. At least the 2009 team had personality and kept games relatively competitive. They would put up a fight. Zimm, Dunn, and Willingham were consistent. Dukes showed potential. Milledge may have sucked, but he was better than Robles.

Online Kevrock

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #46: June 16, 2022, 08:42:25 PM »
Quit it, Milledge was awful

Online Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #47: June 17, 2022, 11:39:58 AM »
Lastings "Bend ya knees" Milledge

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2009 vs 2022 - which lineup is worse?
« Reply #48: June 17, 2022, 11:52:42 AM »
Lastings "Bend ya knees" Milledge
it's all one big blur, but Lasting Milledge barely played for that team.  26 plate appearances over 7 games.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/WSN/2009.shtml

Dukes was a full-timer.  I don't know if that was when Dmitri took him under his wing.

This was a Nyjer Morgan team, at least after the trade.