Author Topic: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success  (Read 596 times)

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Offline Senatorswin

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DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Topic Start: May 03, 2022, 08:00:16 PM »
I remember the night I was riding home from work when it was announced the DC Council had rejected building a stadium so MLB would agree to relocate the Montreal Expos to the district. I was crushed. Later that evening the council voted again, and this time agreed to pay $535 million in bonds to build a stadium. As I approached the stadium for a game this year, I saw another huge building going up just outside the stadium. Adrian Fenty and the other members of the council who fought the stadium were obviously wrong.

My question is, does anybody know what the deal is with the building near the DOT building that has some of it's windows broken. It has some kind of transportation sign on it. If you look in the window it looks like just an empty building with a dirt floor. Very strange the rest of the area is developing like crazy but this prime spot for a restaurant or bar has this decrepit building on it. Historical building?

Offline imref

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #1: May 03, 2022, 08:34:17 PM »
Sounds like a question for jdland

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #2: May 03, 2022, 08:43:08 PM »
I remember the night I was riding home from work when it was announced the DC Council had rejected building a stadium so MLB would agree to relocate the Montreal Expos to the district. I was crushed. Later that evening the council voted again, and this time agreed to pay $535 million in bonds to build a stadium. As I approached the stadium for a game this year, I saw another huge building going up just outside the stadium. Adrian Fenty and the other members of the council who fought the stadium were obviously wrong.

My question is, does anybody know what the deal is with the building near the DOT building that has some of it's windows broken. It has some kind of transportation sign on it. If you look in the window it looks like just an empty building with a dirt floor. Very strange the rest of the area is developing like crazy but this prime spot for a restaurant or bar has this decrepit building on it. Historical building?

Well not everyone agrees.

https://stanfordeconreview.com/2017/06/16/deloughry/

In addition to the $535 million you cite which wa a financed they had to put another $135 million up front for the stadium as well as $80 million to upgrade the Navy yard metro. The latter of which they could have used to make other improvements to the falling apart system.

I’m happy DC has baseball but not so sure of the overall benefit.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #3: May 03, 2022, 09:35:39 PM »
Well not everyone agrees.

https://stanfordeconreview.com/2017/06/16/deloughry/

In addition to the $535 million you cite which wa a financed they had to put another $135 million up front for the stadium as well as $80 million to upgrade the Navy yard metro. The latter of which they could have used to make other improvements to the falling apart system.

I’m happy DC has baseball but not so sure of the overall benefit.

Two things about that. When the location of the stadium was announced I drove around that neighborhood (it would of been risky to walk around that neighborhood). It was a toilet. One major reason that site was picked was because there were very few residences there. When you walk through that neighborhood now it's hard to imagine what it was like then. There's even a park on the Anacostia there.

Also, that article concentrates only on negative aspects and doesn't talk enough about the huge apartment complexes that go for $3000 a month where there was nothing but trash prior to the stadium. It doesn't take into account the attraction of coming to the city for tourists and suburban visitors who now want to spend the day in the city largely because of the beautiful Nationals park area. The article even contradicts itself to a certain extent by talking about the negative impact on the city if the Nationals were to move.

Here's another view on the impact the stadium on a story by WUSA9:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/nats-park-billion-dollar-gamble/65-70abe9a1-32f6-48f2-853e-9ce61fe63932

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #4: May 03, 2022, 10:02:34 PM »
Two things about that. When the location of the stadium was announced I drove around that neighborhood (it would of been risky to walk around that neighborhood). It was a toilet. One major reason that site was picked was because there were very few residences there. When you walk through that neighborhood now it's hard to imagine what it was like then. There's even a park on the Anacostia there.

Also, that article concentrates only on negative aspects and doesn't talk enough about the huge apartment complexes that go for $3000 a month where there was nothing but trash prior to the stadium. It doesn't take into account the attraction of coming to the city for tourists and suburban visitors who now want to spend the day in the city largely because of the beautiful Nationals park area. The article even contradicts itself to a certain extent by talking about the negative impact on the city if the Nationals were to move.

Here's another view on the impact the stadium on a story by WUSA9:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/nats-park-billion-dollar-gamble/65-70abe9a1-32f6-48f2-853e-9ce61fe63932
Huge apartment complexes that go for $3000 a month don’t benefit most of the city resident.  The city still has the same problems it did years ago with poverty and crime. I just wanted to post a different view. Not all economists agree it was a boon to the city.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #5: May 03, 2022, 11:08:24 PM »
Huge apartment complexes that go for $3000 a month don’t benefit most of the city resident.  The city still has the same problems it did years ago with poverty and crime. I just wanted to post a different view. Not all economists agree it was a boon to the city.

I think anybody who wanted to could spin this story either way to suit them there's so many variables. I would imagine there has to be a fair amount of taxes coming in due to the apartment complexes and businesses down there that weren't there when it was trash dumps. It's such a pleasure being down there now as opposed to before. I worked in the city for almost 30 years and never even went in that area until they announced that's where the stadium would be. Anyway, I appreciate you posting that article to give another side to the story even though I don't agree with it.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #6: May 03, 2022, 11:14:11 PM »
I remember the night I was riding home from work when it was announced the DC Council had rejected building a stadium so MLB would agree to relocate the Montreal Expos to the district. I was crushed. Later that evening the council voted again, and this time agreed to pay $535 million in bonds to build a stadium. As I approached the stadium for a game this year, I saw another huge building going up just outside the stadium. Adrian Fenty and the other members of the council who fought the stadium were obviously wrong.

The Navy Yard was reportedly already getting a bigger influx of use due to BRAC and the related acceleration after 2001. The DOT opening up there was also evidently part of the upgrade planned whether or not there was going to be a stadium there.

Offline imref

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #7: May 03, 2022, 11:18:00 PM »
I remember the night I was riding home from work when it was announced the DC Council had rejected building a stadium so MLB would agree to relocate the Montreal Expos to the district. I was crushed. Later that evening the council voted again, and this time agreed to pay $535 million in bonds to build a stadium. As I approached the stadium for a game this year, I saw another huge building going up just outside the stadium. Adrian Fenty and the other members of the council who fought the stadium were obviously wrong.

My question is, does anybody know what the deal is with the building near the DOT building that has some of it's windows broken. It has some kind of transportation sign on it. If you look in the window it looks like just an empty building with a dirt floor. Very strange the rest of the area is developing like crazy but this prime spot for a restaurant or bar has this decrepit building on it. Historical building?

This?

http://www.jdland.com/dc/wasa.cfm

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #8: May 03, 2022, 11:39:06 PM »
That was a cute essay in the Stanford High School Economic Review, but puh-leaze.  A 600m bond issue is about two-tenths of freak-all in the big picture. 

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #9: May 04, 2022, 01:05:08 AM »
This?

http://www.jdland.com/dc/wasa.cfm

No, if you cross over M street at third street and go straight between the DOT building and the apartment building toward the stadium it's right there. There's little water falls across from it. It's kind of long and not very wide. Ever since the stadium opened I've wondered why it's still there because it's such an ugly empty building surrounded by all new buildings. It's like it's untouchable.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #10: May 04, 2022, 02:15:53 AM »
Huge apartment complexes that go for $3000 a month don’t benefit most of the city resident.  The city still has the same problems it did years ago with poverty and crime. I just wanted to post a different view. Not all economists agree it was a boon to the city.

??? What do you think property taxes are?  And all of these new restaurants and hotels are collecting sales/consumption taxes.   And those people renting those $3000 apartments--where do you think they're working (i.e. generating income) and spending money after work?

SensWin is right - just way too one-sided of a look at things.

Also, this:

That was a cute essay in the Stanford High School Economic Review, but puh-leaze.  A 600m bond issue is about two-tenths of freak-all in the big picture. 

:lol:

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #11: May 04, 2022, 08:02:18 AM »
??? What do you think property taxes are?  And all of these new restaurants and hotels are collecting sales/consumption taxes.   And those people renting those $3000 apartments--where do you think they're working (i.e. generating income) and spending money after work?

SensWin is right - just way too one-sided of a look at things.

Also, this:

:lol:

Well you seem to be assuming that none of those folks would have moved into DC without a stadium. I think it’s more reasonable to assume that these folks would be living elsewhere in DC and development would have occurred to some degree in other locations. Seems strange to me that no one has actually tried to quantify the benefits and compare them to the costs. Almost like people would rather live on anecdotes.

Here is one general study I found.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/Coates-Sports-Franchises.pdf


Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #12: May 04, 2022, 08:13:03 AM »
The Navy Yard was reportedly already getting a bigger influx of use due to BRAC and the related acceleration after 2001. The DOT opening up there was also evidently part of the upgrade planned whether or not there was going to be a stadium there.
So we can agree that there would have been development there even without a stadium.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #13: May 04, 2022, 10:08:48 AM »
So we can agree that there would have been development there even without a stadium.

I recall that point being made by city officials in 2002 when the sites were discussed in the town halls. That was why when they had the opportunity to switch to the RFK Stadium site during the extended lease process, that would’ve seemed to made much more sense in terms of long-term logistics as well as cost.

Offline machpost

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #14: May 04, 2022, 10:36:15 AM »
My question is, does anybody know what the deal is with the building near the DOT building that has some of it's windows broken. It has some kind of transportation sign on it. If you look in the window it looks like just an empty building with a dirt floor. Very strange the rest of the area is developing like crazy but this prime spot for a restaurant or bar has this decrepit building on it. Historical building?

I think you're talking about 200 Tingey St. SE, AKA Building 170:



Seems like it's controlled by GSA and is for lease, but I have no idea why it remains pretty much the only unoccupied building in the neighborhood. Here's a brochure about it, but it's pretty out of date as a lot of those neighborhood businesses have come and gone: https://brokerage.streetsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/200-Tingey-St-SE_Book_180220.pdf

That space would make an awesome brewpub. Like Bluejacket on steroids.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #15: May 04, 2022, 11:11:36 AM »
DC has continued it ascent into an affluent international city like NYC since 2008 so really, the development of Navy Yard would have happened regardless of the stadium, but the stadium jump-started things and did serve as an anchor for a new neighborhood that seemed to finally become an actual...neighborhood in the mid-2010s or late 2010s. A friend lives there and hard to believe how bad it was in 2008 and before when you see it now.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #16: May 04, 2022, 06:54:36 PM »
I think you're talking about 200 Tingey St. SE, AKA Building 170:

(Image removed from quote.)

Seems like it's controlled by GSA and is for lease, but I have no idea why it remains pretty much the only unoccupied building in the neighborhood. Here's a brochure about it, but it's pretty out of date as a lot of those neighborhood businesses have come and gone: https://brokerage.streetsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/200-Tingey-St-SE_Book_180220.pdf

That space would make an awesome brewpub. Like Bluejacket on steroids.

That's it!! Thank you. It's so strange a prime location like that is pretty much the only place that hasn't been touched. It would be a great location for a pub. As it is now the building is an eyesore.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #17: May 04, 2022, 07:01:15 PM »
DC has continued it ascent into an affluent international city like NYC since 2008 so really, the development of Navy Yard would have happened regardless of the stadium, but the stadium jump-started things and did serve as an anchor for a new neighborhood that seemed to finally become an actual...neighborhood in the mid-2010s or late 2010s. A friend lives there and hard to believe how bad it was in 2008 and before when you see it now.

I would love to see pictures of that neighborhood before it was announced the stadium would be built there. It was beyond horrible. I don't think the level of development would of been anywhere near what it is now without the stadium. The first impression of visitors of DC must of been really bad as they crossed over the South Capital Street Bridge before the area was developed.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #18: May 04, 2022, 07:12:22 PM »
I would love to see pictures of that neighborhood before it was announced the stadium would be built there. It was beyond horrible. I don't think the level of development would of been anywhere near what it is now without the stadium. The first impression of visitors of DC must of been really bad as they crossed over the South Capital Street Bridge before the area was developed.

I think the question is, did the stadium transform their neighborhood or did the city clearing out the junk industries do it?

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #19: May 04, 2022, 07:13:58 PM »
That's it!! Thank you. It's so strange a prime location like that is pretty much the only place that hasn't been touched. It would be a great location for a pub. As it is now the building is an eyesore.
It is subject to both historical preservation and planned unit development restrictions, which might increase the costs too much for potential investors.

Offline machpost

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #20: May 05, 2022, 08:13:15 AM »
I would love to see pictures of that neighborhood before it was announced the stadium would be built there. It was beyond horrible. I don't think the level of development would of been anywhere near what it is now without the stadium. The first impression of visitors of DC must of been really bad as they crossed over the South Capital Street Bridge before the area was developed.

I'm not sure how old the oldest ones are, but here's a massive archive of photos of the neighborhood over time: http://www.jdland.com/dc/photobrowse-all.cfm

If you click the button, you get a slider image where you can go back and forth between different times.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #21: May 05, 2022, 08:28:03 AM »
I think the question is, did the stadium transform their neighborhood or did the city clearing out the junk industries do it?

Easy answer, it was the usage of eminent domain and a billion dollars in investment that upgraded the area (a prime location between the US Capitol and the river), not the ballpark itself. If the ballpark was so magical why does the renewal stop 50 yards away if you head across South Capitol Street? Last night at 8 PM there was a shoot out a block away, third shooting in that area in 3-4 weeks. I often park behind those townhouses and chat with the owners but it's getting too risky, I'm at the point of paying more to park in a less convenient spot.


Offline imref

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #22: May 05, 2022, 09:45:31 AM »
JDland used to post in this forum, it would be great to have her back again.  I sent her a DM.

Offline jdland

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #23: May 05, 2022, 09:54:03 AM »
JDland used to post in this forum, it would be great to have her back again.  I sent her a DM.

:waves:


Offline jdland

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Re: DC Commitment To Build Stadium a Success
« Reply #24: May 05, 2022, 09:55:35 AM »
As for the discussion at hand, interested parties might want to read this, which I wrote for the Hill Rag a few months ago. (I'm now officially retired from blogging, but I haven't yet forgotten the stuff that took up more than 15 years of my life. :) )

https://www.hillrag.com/2022/01/09/the-modern-capitol-riverfront/