Author Topic: The Nats are...For Sale?!?  (Read 9352 times)

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Offline UMDNats

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #425: October 06, 2022, 02:56:01 PM »
Leonsis is fairly hands off. My complaints about him are an unwillingness to make changes in a front office and his organizations have failed to develop talent.

Not really the case with the Caps TBH. Even if you disregard the Ovy-era rebuild drafts (2004-2007), they've hit with a lot of players, either as NHL regulars (Wilson, Carlson, etc.) the  or trade pieces (Vrana, Burakovsky, goaltenders, etc.). But I agree with the other criticisms of Ted and do wonder how much he just got lucky hiring McPhee's #2 guy, who happened to be the opposite of GMGM.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #426: October 06, 2022, 03:58:33 PM »
Leonsis is fine for hockey and terrible for basketball. With baseball, I’d worry that he wouldn’t have the money to really compete

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #427: October 06, 2022, 05:38:35 PM »
Question I still have is does Leonsis have anybody like Rubenstein involved in the ownership of any of the other teams he has?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #428: October 06, 2022, 06:14:26 PM »
He’s the majority owner of the other two

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #429: October 06, 2022, 08:15:14 PM »
Right, but it's been pretty well publicized that this deal doesn't get done without Rubenstein's involvement. I'm curious to see if Leonsis will be the final say if they win the bid. He may very well be, but I'll be curious to see how it all plays out.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #430: October 06, 2022, 10:18:36 PM »
Fans don't get to pick the owner, but if we did, I am not really wanting the unicorn mentioned.   That sounds like a recipe for a guy to come in and impatiently put together a 300 million payroll, have it not work out, and fire everyone and be left with a bunch of bad contracts and sell off a broken franchise that will take years to recover.   

I'd much rather bring in a guy who'd spend up to the cap, and be willing to run over temporarily when it makes sense and can put together the personnel to build a team that is a perennial contender.   That's the kind of owner that will build a fanbase and build a sustainable, successful franchise.


Offline imref

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #431: October 06, 2022, 10:25:12 PM »
Fans don't get to pick the owner, but if we did, I am not really wanting the unicorn mentioned.   That sounds like a recipe for a guy to come in and impatiently put together a 300 million payroll, have it not work out, and fire everyone and be left with a bunch of bad contracts and sell off a broken franchise that will take years to recover.   

The LA Angels

I'd much rather bring in a guy who'd spend up to the cap, and be willing to run over temporarily when it makes sense and can put together the personnel to build a team that is a perennial contender.   That's the kind of owner that will build a fanbase and build a sustainable, successful franchise.
The Washington Nationals under the Lerners

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #432: October 06, 2022, 10:43:30 PM »

The Washington Nationals under the Lerners
Well it was only sustainable for 7 years.  Now they are the worst team in baseball.   Would rather see something like the Dodgers or Cards or even the Astros now.  They seem like they will not bottom out like the Nats have.  I think the key is having an eye to hire the best baseball people and not the spending on the team payroll.  That helps but need to spend on the development staff and analytics and such. 

Offline nfotiu

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #433: October 06, 2022, 10:58:34 PM »
Well it was only sustainable for 7 years.  Now they are the worst team in baseball.   Would rather see something like the Dodgers or Cards or even the Astros now.  They seem like they will not bottom out like the Nats have.  I think the key is having an eye to hire the best baseball people and not the spending on the team payroll.  That helps but need to spend on the development staff and analytics and such. 
I'm good with the Cards as a best case.   I can't separate the now Astros from the cheating Astros.   If we can get the Dodgers 300 million/year tv contract, then bring it on!

I think the biggest thing I blame the Lerners for is not figuring out a MASN solution one way or another.   If we took the 100/million year settlement for MASN, then we'd be a nice sustainable franchise. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #434: October 06, 2022, 10:59:21 PM »
Well it was only sustainable for 7 years.  Now they are the worst team in baseball.   Would rather see something like the Dodgers or Cards or even the Astros now.  They seem like they will not bottom out like the Nats have.  I think the key is having an eye to hire the best baseball people and not the spending on the team payroll.  That helps but need to spend on the development staff and analytics and such. 

The dodgers have the ability to outspend anyone, I doubt we get that

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #435: October 06, 2022, 11:15:54 PM »
I know the Dodgers spend a lot but they have a great baseball scouting and development organization and it has almost always been like that. Even before they were outspending anyone.  They draft later than most of the teams every year but their prospects outperform. They always seem to have the most players on the top prospects list. That’s what I am taking about. That does not require $300 million a year.

Offline 1995hoo

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #436: October 07, 2022, 08:36:59 AM »
Leonsis is fairly hands off. ....

Unless your name is Jason Hammer:mg:

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #437: October 07, 2022, 12:17:04 PM »
The Cardinals, the Red Sox, and more recently the Dodgers have been able to be so good at drafting and player development that they always have a stream of top prospects in the minor leagues even if they do not have the benefit of high draft picks. This is very rare.

Most organizations are dependent on the rebuild: the Nationals, the Astros, the Cubs, and the Braves have all won World Series in recent memory after tanking for years and using high draft picks and trades of superstar veterans to rebuild the farm system. This is realistically what most franchises have to do to have 5-10 seasons of excellence.

Offline imref

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #438: October 07, 2022, 02:01:13 PM »
Or find really good international prospects.

Offline hotshot

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #439: October 07, 2022, 06:42:12 PM »
Fans don't get to pick the owner, but if we did, I am not really wanting the unicorn mentioned.   That sounds like a recipe for a guy to come in and impatiently put together a 300 million payroll, have it not work out, and fire everyone and be left with a bunch of bad contracts and sell off a broken franchise that will take years to recover.   

I'd much rather bring in a guy who'd spend up to the cap, and be willing to run over temporarily when it makes sense and can put together the personnel to build a team that is a perennial contender.   That's the kind of owner that will build a fanbase and build a sustainable, successful franchise.
Maybe. But the Mets unicorn just brought (bought?) them a 101 win season, an improvement of 24 wins over 2021. Most of the moves Cohen has made, from his manager on down, have panned out well at this point.

Don't need to remind anyone we finished 46 games behind both ATL and the Mets, 32 games behind the Phillies and 14 back of Miami. How long are those large to massive gaps gonna take to be closed with a "hands off,' slow moving and/or underfunded owner? And, what will happen further to attendance, radio and TV, and other revenue if we become like the old Senators?

Offline Smithian

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #440: October 08, 2022, 09:44:11 AM »
If this doesn't go down by owner's meetings, I'm going to be pretty depressed and resigned to a terrible season where they strip it down in ways we didn't even know possible.

Offline Smithian

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #441: October 08, 2022, 09:50:32 AM »
Well it was only sustainable for 7 years.  Now they are the worst team in baseball.   Would rather see something like the Dodgers or Cards or even the Astros now.  They seem like they will not bottom out like the Nats have.  I think the key is having an eye to hire the best baseball people and not the spending on the team payroll.  That helps but need to spend on the development staff and analytics and such. 
The Nationals won 98 games in 2012. They won a World Series in 2019. There were disappointing seasons in between, but we went into every season with hope the team could break through. All stars replaced all stars, multiple Hall of Famers graced Nationals Park. Seven years is a long, long time in sports!

It got bad fast at the end and the Lerners own that. Still, the success of the 2010's didn't happen by accident.

It's going to be up to the new owners to sit down with Rizzo and see if he can make the case the collapse last couple seasons is more ownership pulling the plug then him losing his edge.

Offline imref

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #442: October 08, 2022, 09:57:32 AM »
The Nationals won 98 games in 2012. They won a World Series in 2019. There were disappointing seasons in between, but we went into every season with hope the team could break through. All stars replaced all stars, multiple Hall of Famers graced Nationals Park. Seven years is a long, long time in sports!

It got bad fast at the end and the Lerners own that. Still, the success of the 2010's didn't happen by accident.

It's going to be up to the new owners to sit down with Rizzo and see if he can make the case the collapse last couple seasons is more ownership pulling the plug then him losing his edge.

IMHO, the collapse of the last two seasons was largely the failure for Fedde, Robles and Kieboom to develop, Corbin's woes, and Strasburg.

Offline Smithian

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #443: October 08, 2022, 10:02:59 AM »
IMHO, the collapse of the last two seasons was largely the failure for Fedde, Robles and Kieboom to develop, Corbin's woes, and Strasburg.
I'm not really open to the argument, but I concede there's a fair discussion that the Nationals set themselves not totally poorly for 2021 and 2022 with the goal of reloading for 2023, just to see everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

I just struggle to give them benefit of the doubt when everything goes wrong.

Offline imref

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #444: October 08, 2022, 10:16:42 AM »
I'm not really open to the argument, but I concede there's a fair discussion that the Nationals set themselves not totally poorly for 2021 and 2022 with the goal of reloading for 2023, just to see everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

I just struggle to give them benefit of the doubt when everything goes wrong.

If Robles was the five-tool stud we thought he'd be in 2019, and Kieboom was a solid replacement for Rendon, and Corbin pitched well, and Fedde developed into a mid-rotation starter, and Strasburg didn't get hurt, we would have been in a solid position to compete for a playoff spot in both 2020 and 2021 IMHO, and we wouldn't have dealt Turner, Scherzer, etc., and we most certainly wouldn't have dealt Soto.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #445: October 10, 2022, 09:52:45 AM »
If Robles was the five-tool stud we thought he'd be in 2019, and Kieboom was a solid replacement for Rendon, and Corbin pitched well, and Fedde developed into a mid-rotation starter, and Strasburg didn't get hurt, we would have been in a solid position to compete for a playoff spot in both 2020 and 2021 IMHO, and we wouldn't have dealt Turner, Scherzer, etc., and we most certainly wouldn't have dealt Soto.

"if everything went perfect, we could have maybe been a wildcard team!"

Offline imref

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #446: October 10, 2022, 10:20:30 AM »
"if everything went perfect, we could have maybe been a wildcard team!"

We had won 14 of 17 in 2021 before Schwarber got hurt. We were a legitmate contender for the division title as late as July of last year.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #447: October 10, 2022, 10:36:00 AM »
We had won 14 of 17 in 2021 before Schwarber got hurt. We were a legitmate contender for the division title as late as July of last year.
Yea the division was not as strong last year.  Also the lower wild card teams won three of four series this weekend. And of course the Nats were the wild card team in 2019. Once you get in you have a chance.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #448: October 10, 2022, 10:45:01 AM »
"if everything went perfect, we could have maybe been a wildcard team!"
Too bad you didn't parlay those four outcomes.  It was the opposite of a perfect set of outcomes.  It was blow after unexpected blow. 

Maybe just maybe Stasburg breaking down was a likely outcome, but even that was for the tail end of his contract, not right away.  Robles was coming off a 3+ WAR year in his first full season after a good end of season review, top 10 prospect status, and a complete package of physical skills.  Maybe some folks had said his contact was too soft, but his game wasn't as a power hitter.  Kieboom, yes, prospects bust, but you can cover for one spot. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: The Nats are...For Sale?!?
« Reply #449: October 10, 2022, 12:18:07 PM »
Strasburg's entire career has been one of consistently being injured. 2019 was the first time in 5 seasons he's made 30 or lore starts. Anyone expecting him to be even somewhat healthy was delusional. It was literally the perfect time to let him walk