Author Topic: If we had signed Zimmermann  (Read 295 times)

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Offline imref

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Offline Senatorswin

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #1: December 09, 2021, 09:49:22 PM »
That was interesting. Zuckerman indicated he was going to do more of those type articles. I hope I catch them.

 

Offline imref

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #2: December 09, 2021, 10:01:28 PM »
That was interesting. Zuckerman indicated he was going to do more of those type articles. I hope I catch them.

 

Gotta think the next one is on Desmond.  And then Harper.  And then if we had signed Prince Fielder.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #3: December 10, 2021, 10:54:12 AM »
The first Nats FA droolfest I recall (unless you count Soriano) was Teixeira, which would be an interesting "what if".  Would have spared us LaRoche. 

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #4: December 10, 2021, 10:58:39 AM »
The first Nats FA droolfest I recall (unless you count Soriano) was Teixeira, which would be an interesting "what if".  Would have spared us LaRoche.

Adam, or Drake? Well, both, I guess.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #5: December 10, 2021, 11:44:38 AM »
I'm thinking that the Zuck article maybe one of the best he has ever authored.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #6: December 10, 2021, 01:04:59 PM »
I started posting here when Fielder mania was happening. Prince is still one of my all time favorite players and I'm still miffed he signed in Detroit.

Offline imref

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #7: December 10, 2021, 01:58:41 PM »
I started posting here when Fielder mania was happening. Prince is still one of my all time favorite players and I'm still miffed he signed in Detroit.

wasn't "Sign Fielder" the longest thread on the board for a long while?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #8: December 10, 2021, 02:16:02 PM »
wasn't "Sign Fielder" the longest thread on the board for a long while?
still #8 by posts. 

Sad to say, 3 of the top 4 are politics 2016, politics 2017, and the COVID medical discussion.  Who says we are a baseball board :( . I think 2 others in the top 5 are general offseason threads.

In fairness, those politics threads I think were before we broke out topics and had a politics forum for separate threads.

Offline imref

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #9: December 10, 2021, 02:22:20 PM »
still #8 by posts. 

Sad to say, 3 of the top 4 are politics 2016, politics 2017, and the COVID medical discussion.  Who says we are a baseball board :( . I think 2 others in the top 5 are general offseason threads.

In fairness, those politics threads I think were before we broke out topics and had a politics forum for separate threads.

I didn't expect to see that Dunn thread in the top 10.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #10: December 10, 2021, 02:45:04 PM »
For how upset fans get when their best players leave, it sure seems to be the right call much more often than not.   Everyone thought Pujols seemed a slam dunk to keep performing and he started a sharp decline almost immediately in his new contract.   Everyone thought Mookie Betts would be a great signing is already looking like he is post peak and in the decline and has 11 seasons left on his contract.   There are endless examples of this, and the market feels so broken in that it just makes no sense to bid on a guy who you have to pay 30 million 8-10 seasons after their peak.


Offline imref

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #11: December 10, 2021, 02:49:31 PM »
For how upset fans get when their best players leave, it sure seems to be the right call much more often than not.   Everyone thought Pujols seemed a slam dunk to keep performing and he started a sharp decline almost immediately in his new contract.   Everyone thought Mookie Betts would be a great signing is already looking like he is post peak and in the decline and has 11 seasons left on his contract.   There are endless examples of this, and the market feels so broken in that it just makes no sense to bid on a guy who you have to pay 30 million 8-10 seasons after their peak.

Exactly. Generally the big FA deals are busts, Werth and Scherzer being rare exceptions to the rule.  The Tampa model looks to be the correct one.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #12: December 10, 2021, 03:31:23 PM »
Exactly. Generally the big FA deals are busts, Werth and Scherzer being rare exceptions to the rule.  The Tampa model looks to be the correct one.
And Werth was only really worth his salary for 2 of his 7 years here, but he worked out for some intangible reasons, I'd say.   We hit the jackpot on Scherzer for sure.  I'm guessing the Mets don't get anywhere near as lucky for their money.  Bryce is working out so far for the Phillies, but they haven't won anything yet and he's probably only got 2-3 more seasons left where he plays like a 30 million dollar player, and then Philly is eating 30 million a year for 7-8 years.

Tampa is the extreme and I hate them for their bullpenning, but the Yankees, Astros, Red Sox, Cubs are all shying away from these deals too.  The players, agents, and league just have not come to terms with the reality that player is probably going to peak in his late 20s.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #13: December 10, 2021, 04:36:25 PM »
And Werth was only really worth his salary for 2 of his 7 years here, but he worked out for some intangible reasons, I'd say.   We hit the jackpot on Scherzer for sure.  I'm guessing the Mets don't get anywhere near as lucky for their money.  Bryce is working out so far for the Phillies, but they haven't won anything yet and he's probably only got 2-3 more seasons left where he plays like a 30 million dollar player, and then Philly is eating 30 million a year for 7-8 years.

Tampa is the extreme and I hate them for their bullpenning, but the Yankees, Astros, Red Sox, Cubs are all shying away from these deals too.  The players, agents, and league just have not come to terms with the reality that player is probably going to peak in his late 20s.
Agree generally. However the Harper contract is about $25 million per year AAV and not $30 million.

The problem the Nats have now is that the farm system cupboard is almost bare. They could let Harper go because Soto was there to replace him on the cheap. However letting Rendon go for Kieboom did not work. And they don’t have a replacement lined up for Soto. So at some point they will probably have to go the free agent route if they want to compete.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #14: December 10, 2021, 04:57:24 PM »
Agree generally. However the Harper contract is about $25 million per year AAV and not $30 million.

The problem the Nats have now is that the farm system cupboard is almost bare. They could let Harper go because Soto was there to replace him on the cheap. However letting Rendon go for Kieboom did not work. And they don’t have a replacement lined up for Soto. So at some point they will probably have to go the free agent route if they want to compete.

I think there are value plays to be had in the free agent space.  It's just that it makes no sense to go after guys who want to be paid deep into their 30s and we've happened to be fortunate or unfortunate enough to have a lot of those kind of guys in our system.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #15: December 10, 2021, 05:30:53 PM »
I think there are value plays to be had in the free agent space.  It's just that it makes no sense to go after guys who want to be paid deep into their 30s and we've happened to be fortunate or unfortunate enough to have a lot of those kind of guys in our system.
The Nats were very fortunate to have three big hits in the draft when drafting high:  Harper, Strasburg and Rendon.  The likelihood of hitting like that again is small.  The one they extended seems the biggest mistake.  They seem unable to maneuver like TB in getting relief pitchers.  They right now have big bucks tied up in Strasburg and Corbin who seem unable to produce much--so they have taken on some big contracts that have not worked.  They need to improve the drafting and player development.  And hope that the youngsters like Garcia and House and Cavalli and some others are good.  Then they can fill in with "bargain" free agents.  Which are not as cheap as they used to be.  Schwarber seems due to get $20 million per year.  Of course not for as long a time as someone like Harper or Betts. 

Offline raleighnat

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #16: December 10, 2021, 06:25:44 PM »
Yeah I agree.  I think the biggest problem is the paucity of talent in the minors from what I can tell.  That has to be fixed.  Whatever the dodgers do, do that.  It is ridiculous how good they are of keeping the young talent flowing while competing every year.  This is Rizzos weakest area strangely enough.  I think he knows it though and is trying to fix it.  Gotta excel internationally as well.  We’ve had some hits, obviously, just no depth. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: If we had signed Zimmermann
« Reply #17: December 11, 2021, 11:47:43 AM »
Yeah I agree.  I think the biggest problem is the paucity of talent in the minors from what I can tell.  That has to be fixed.  Whatever the dodgers do, do that.  It is ridiculous how good they are of keeping the young talent flowing while competing every year.  This is Rizzos weakest area strangely enough.  I think he knows it though and is trying to fix it.  Gotta excel internationally as well.  We’ve had some hits, obviously, just no depth. 
The excuse that they stripped the system when they were contenders is a bit tired.  There was the Doolittle / Madson trade that cost Luzardo and Treinen in 2017, then the Dunning / Giolito / Lopez trade for Eaton before 2017, but I don't think there was any significant talent shipped out since then.  Next names would be maybe Jefry Rodriguez and Daniel Johnson for Yan Gomes, or Austin Adams for nothing.

Looking back at the transactions, it is spectacular how badly they botched the 2018 trade deadline.  Nothing for Kintzler, who is still pitching, Daniel Murphy, Gio, Ryan Madson, Matt Adams, Shawn Kelley, Brian Goodwin, and of course B. Harper.  I realize that it was maybe not quite time to tank at the 7/31 deadline, but to not even get one contributor for all that talent shipped out in August is amazing.  Kintzler and Goodwin were moved in July, too, and Harper of course was held and allowed to walk.  Got nothing out of that draft yet, either.