Author Topic: 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion/Signings/Trades/Rumors  (Read 24607 times)

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Offline Natsinpwc

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I was thinking as much about who we've brought in, as well as who's out. Just MHO, but are we all feeling inspired by this trade round?
Deadline deals when you are not contending don’t bring back equal value. You hope to get prospects. Other than Turner all the guys traded were going to be gone after last year anyway.

Have to give it a year or two. Need Cavalli to be good and maybe House in a year or two. Ruiz and Gray should be fun to watch all season. Can Garcia develop? Not sure how long your fandom goes back but should be much like 2008-9.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Deadline deals when you are not contending don’t bring back equal value. You hope to get prospects. Other than Turner all the guys traded were going to be gone after last year anyway.

Have to give it a year or two. Need Cavalli to be good and maybe House in a year or two. Ruiz and Gray should be fun to watch all season. Can Garcia develop? Not sure how long your fandom goes back but should be much like 2008-9.
To add to this they will get the number 5 pick in this summers draft and probably another high one next summer.  Need to hit on those including the House draft last summer.

Offline English Natsie

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Fair comment - I'd like nothing better than for this to actually turn out to be the beginning of a Nats 'golden-era'. I just wonder sometimes ( in those dark nights of the soul) if we look back on '08 - '09 through the lens of '13 to '19, and the passage of time...

Offline Natsinpwc

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Fair comment - I'd like nothing better than for this to actually turn out to be the beginning of a Nats 'golden-era'. I just wonder sometimes ( in those dark nights of the soul) if we look back on '08 - '09 through the lens of '13 to '19, and the passage of time...
Most rebuilds don’t work. They had Strasburg, Harper and Rendon in consecutive drafts back then. What a glorious trifecta.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I was thinking as much about who we've brought in, as well as who's out. Just MHO, but are we all feeling inspired by this trade round?
we got a middle of the order bat at catcher and a guy who looks a #3 starter, a backup catcher with pop, and a 4th outfielder as pieces that have already made the majors.  Some of the arms we received in trade also are pretty good and a few should pay off. 

Offline imref

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Nats claim Hunter Harvey https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harvehu01.shtml

Kieboom to the 60-day DL

Offline blue911

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Jackson Rutledge Sr.
too small to be a Rutledge but has the velocity.  How does a guy with that velocity and a low BB rate not have more Ks?  Does he just groove stuff and say, "try hitting it?"

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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with Story going to the Red Sox, would you look at trying to pick up Christian Arroyo and playing Cesar Hernandez at 3rd?  They have some depth at MI now with Enrique Hernandez capable of playing 2nd, Nick Yorke maybe a year or two away, and several AAA guys capable of filling in (even Jeter Downs).  Maybe for a minor league arm or outfielder?

Offline Smithian

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we got a middle of the order bat at catcher and a guy who looks a #3 starter, a backup catcher with pop, and a 4th outfielder as pieces that have already made the majors.  Some of the arms we received in trade also are pretty good and a few should pay off. 
Last deadline was a pure fire sale. I am very happy with how they approached it. I'm a bit concerned we're in Spring Training and I don't know what they want to do this year, but last deadline was a serious approach.

The farm system was so barren entering last year. They just didn't have the assets to even try if they wanted to make a run. Organization is in a bit of a better place now, but there aren't many assets left to deal and the only way the system advances is actual player development.

But if something weird happens and after 40 or 50 games the Nationals are over .500, last deadline puts the Nats in a lot better place asset and salary wise to make a move. Not a good place, but horrible to not bad is progress.

Offline Smithian

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with Story going to the Red Sox, would you look at trying to pick up Christian Arroyo and playing Cesar Hernandez at 3rd?  They have some depth at MI now with Enrique Hernandez capable of playing 2nd, Nick Yorke maybe a year or two away, and several AAA guys capable of filling in (even Jeter Downs).  Maybe for a minor league arm or outfielder?
I'd rather move Hernandez to 3B and let Luis Garcia play everyday, but I know that won't happen.

I think those moves would make sense to stabilize things. But on one hand we're saying rebuild, on the other side they're playing Maikel Franco at 3B.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I'd rather move Hernandez to 3B and let Luis Garcia play everyday, but I know that won't happen.

I think those moves would make sense to stabilize things. But on one hand we're saying rebuild, on the other side they're playing Maikel Franco at 3B.
I get it. We aren't trading meaningful prospects for major leaguers.  I just like the tons of of control, major league readiness, and my perception that the price will not be too high. I think Arroyo can hit and field as a 2 fWAR mlb regular, but take that with a grain of salt.  He was waived by Cleveland in 2020 after being traded twice. 

Keeping an infield spot open for Garcia at some point is probably the right move in terms of development this year.  I think a priority for this year is some sort of final decision on Kieboom, Garcia, and Robles. 

Offline Slateman

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Just play Franco. When he is garbage, move Hernandez to third and play Dee at second. Hopefully both are good enough to get something at the deadline when move Cruz and Bell. By then, Kieboom and Garcia can come up and be given another chance.

Offline Smithian

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Just play Franco. When he is garbage, move Hernandez to third and play Dee at second. Hopefully both are good enough to get something at the deadline when move Cruz and Bell. By then, Kieboom and Garcia can come up and be given another chance.
Franco and Gordon at best get you a 24 year old reliever in A ball who just finished flaming out as a starter.

Cesar Hernandez is the guy who with a hot start could be a real solid asset at the trade deadline.

The guy I'm keeping the closest eye on is Josh Bell. There is an easy to foresee world where he rakes first half of the season and is still on block because poor pitching negates a good middle of the order.

I personally want him to be on extension watch, but I no longer think any player stays in DC.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Just play Franco. When he is garbage, move Hernandez to third and play Dee at second. Hopefully both are good enough to get something at the deadline when move Cruz and Bell. By then, Kieboom and Garcia can come up and be given another chance.
It's funny, but I have a problem getting into the mindset of management at this point.  I still am thinking about improvements in the short term.  I realize that isn't Rizzo's approach or the general approach of ownership.  It's why I get annoyed at not signing a Zach Greinke or a Tyler Anderson (or  Brett Anderson, for that matter) to fill out innings.  I can still have an axe to grind about not putting another long term piece in place this off-season (a SS or Bryant) because such a piece would help down the line and also give us perhaps 2 years of competitiveness during the Soto years of control, but I respect having the discipline to hold onto chips recently acquired and not taking from Garcia's, Robles's, or Kieboom's chances.  trading for 3 years of an average regular probably isn't worth anything.

Offline Smithian

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It's funny, but I have a problem getting into the mindset of management at this point.  I still am thinking about improvements in the short term.  I realize that isn't Rizzo's approach or the general approach of ownership.  It's why I get annoyed at not signing a Zach Greinke or a Tyler Anderson (or  Brett Anderson, for that matter) to fill out innings.  I can still have an axe to grind about not putting another long term piece in place this off-season (a SS or Bryant) because such a piece would help down the line and also give us perhaps 2 years of competitiveness during the Soto years of control, but I respect having the discipline to hold onto chips recently acquired and not taking from Garcia's, Robles's, or Kieboom's chances.  trading for 3 years of an average regular probably isn't worth anything.
I'm confused by the Nelson Cruz signing. Unless it was 100% to keep Juan Soto happy and to help keep him from setting a walk record.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I'm confused by the Nelson Cruz signing. Unless it was 100% to keep Juan Soto happy and to help keep him from setting a walk record.
budget-wise, it was a non-issue.  This team is more than $75 million below the CBT after accounting for all the extra costs.  $131 million in payroll is cot's estimate, which is $153 million for the CBT after figuring in things like medical, a share of the bonus pool, costs of the minor leaguers on the 40 man, etc...  They had a huge gap in the batting order they had to fill.  He has value in trade, too.  Plus, he's a good clubhouse guy. 

Offline aspenbubba

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I just wanted a repectable team this season and enough competitive personnel to hover around .500. At this juncture I believe we will be in the 2008-2009 realm . The pitching staff is one or two injuries away from a 100 + loss season. I just wanted to be entertained this season not frustrated every night like August and September of last year. The FO could have picked up a LF and a 3B

My prediction is Kiebust is done as a MLB player because of his UCL.

Offline Smithian

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I just wanted a repectable team this season and enough competitive personnel to hover around .500. At this juncture I believe we will be in the 2008-2009 realm. The pitching staff is one or two injuries away from a 100 + loss season. I just wanted to be entertained this season not frustrated every night like August and September of last year. The FO could have picked up a LF and a 3B
My prediction is Kiebust is done as a MLB player because of his UCL.
I don't think things are that grim. Only way it gets that bad is if we struggle early and the Nats move everything that can be moved at the deadline. If we get serviceable pitching and some luck, this team can be .500 at the deadline. But Zimm-Dunn-Willingham had same upside and we were terrible.

I'm not making any final record predictions at the moment. There will not be a steady as she goes trade deadline. Either they blow it all up or go all in. The middle of the order is really good.

Offline Natsinpwc

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This season is all about watching the younger guys and seeing if the can be major leaguers. Ruiz.  Garcia. Gray. Can Robles bounce back to be a decent MLB player. Watch House’s progress in the minor leagues. You know what you have in veterans like Hernandez and Escobar and Franco. Not much. Team could only compete if Strasburg and Corbin regain form.

Offline Slateman

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I'm confused by the Nelson Cruz signing. Unless it was 100% to keep Juan Soto happy and to help keep him from setting a walk record.

Cruz was the best trade piece Rizzo could get in free agency. So Rizzo gave him a few million more than he would have gotten. Cruz gets to mentor Soto for half the season, then get dealt to a team playing meaningful baseball

Offline Section214

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I just wanted a repectable team this season and enough competitive personnel to hover around .500. At this juncture I believe we will be in the 2008-2009 realm . The pitching staff is one or two injuries away from a 100 + loss season. I just wanted to be entertained this season not frustrated every night like August and September of last year. The FO could have picked up a LF and a 3B


I definitely agree with this. I went from complete apathy for this season and "let's just focus on the rebuild" to, "ehhh, why not just go for it a little bit?" in the last few weeks. Lerner has plenty of money to go get 1 more decent bat and 2 mid-level SPs on short deals. I don't expect them to make a run or anything, but 7 teams make the playoffs now. I see no reason not to at least try to sneak in and give us fun baseball in August/September.

Offline imref

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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broke out the Clippard discussion into its own thread.

https://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=39934.0

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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I just wanted a repectable team this season and enough competitive personnel to hover around .500. At this juncture I believe we will be in the 2008-2009 realm . The pitching staff is one or two injuries away from a 100 + loss season. I just wanted to be entertained this season not frustrated every night like August and September of last year. The FO could have picked up a LF and a 3B

My prediction is Kiebust is done as a MLB player because of his UCL.
  we should have traded this fella a few years ago.