Author Topic: 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion/Signings/Trades/Rumors  (Read 1632 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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If the Rays were able to afford Kiermaier at $11.5 million this year then why would they not be able to afford him at $12 million next year? It’s not like they are bumping up against the luxury tax.
they have Brett Phillips, who also is a strong defensive cf who hits lefty. He hits for a lot more power, but k'd a ton. They could easily save $14MM by moving KK (he has an option buyout for '23) and get the same value production, and they are squeezed for roster space

Offline Natsinpwc

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Other guys they want to keep get raises? They don't value KK at 12M?
Maybe. But his offensive stats were better this year than the previous ones so hard to believe. In any event they would want to trade with a team with a strong minor league system.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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If we were willing to part with a prospect that doesnt have to go on the 40 man for a while, we could probably take Kiermaier and get one of their 40 man roster prospects (McKay or Honeywell come to mind)

There's also an opening to potentially grab a Rule 5 guy, either at the major or minor league levels.  The Rays will likely have a couple of decent candidates for each and the Nats will have a high pick in both Rule 5 phases.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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If Honeywell is off the 40 man roster, then he would be the equivalent of the NYY leaving Whitlock exposed

Offline Natsinpwc

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Other guys they want to keep get raises? They don't value KK at 12M?
If they are smart enough to not value a career .720 OPS guy at $12 million might be a caution sign for us. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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If they are smart enough to not value a career .720 OPS guy at $12 million might be a caution sign for us. 
it's more that they have a good alternative that saves $14 million and could let them keep another prospect on the 40 man.

Offline Slateman

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If they are smart enough to not value a career .720 OPS guy at $12 million might be a caution sign for us. 
Kiermaier is currently 16% of the Rays payroll (he was 20% on Opening Day). In addition to Mike Zunino's 7 million dollar option, they have 13 players going to their first time (including Austin Meadows), and they have Glasnow going to Arb 3 while also likely missing a huge chunk of next season (they tried to trade him at the deadline before they announced he needed TJS).

While a normal team might not balk at Kiermaier for 12 million, the Rays' ownership simply won't provide the funds for him to take up 15-20% of the available payroll. Not when they have Manuel Margot capable of very good defense and similar offensive production at a fraction of the cost.

Couple that with a rather urgent need for 40 man roster spots, and the Rays have significant motivation to trade Kiermaier

Offline Slateman

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If Honeywell is off the 40 man roster, then he would be the equivalent of the NYY leaving Whitlock exposed
Whitlock got dropped because he got TJS and then the next season sad Covid. Honeywell was significatly more talented, but also had more injuries. Before this season, he hadnt pitched since 2017

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Whitlock got dropped because he got TJS and then the next season sad Covid. Honeywell was significatly more talented, but also had more injuries. Before this season, he hadnt pitched since 2017
that's what I mean by the Whitlock comparison.  Basically, a guy who was coming off arm injuries and had not established himself on the major league roster.  Whitlock was well regarded but not like prime Honeywell, and Honeywell at least pitched a whole year in AAA this year.  I saw they tried Honeywell closing in Durham.  K rate down, BB rate up a bit from career best, but he has more of a track record as to what he is than Whitlock had coming into the offseason.  Given his arm history, I'd think the risk / reward is comparable to Whitlock. I'd love to roll the dice on this one.  I think De La Rosa + somebody off the gulf coast instructional league roster would get listened to for KK + Honeywell.  TBH, I'd rather a little more bat than KK, but I think this is an upgrade over even Robles in  CF.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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I really wish Thomas could play 2nd capably.  He’s played 675 innings between 2nd and 3rd in the minors but most of that was 2014-2015.  I would love to have him be a Chris Taylor type who can line up anywhere in the OF and also play a couple infield spots.  His defense in the minors a 2nd though was suspect at best (.914 fielding % at 2nd) so it’s doubtful

Offline welch

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Senley and Knorr to development positions in the organization. The other coaches were extended contracts, but are free to find jobs somewhere else. Except for Hickey, who signed a contract already.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Kiermaier is currently 16% of the Rays payroll (he was 20% on Opening Day).

While a normal team might not balk at Kiermaier for 12 million, the Rays' ownership simply won't provide the funds for him to take up 15-20% of the available payroll.
So they won’t do what they did this year?  Ok.

Offline varoadking

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So they won’t do what they did this year?  Ok.

They've apparently got more options this year...

Offline Natsinpwc

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They've apparently got more options this year...
I would be wary of trading with TB. The guy has mediocre offensive stats. Great defensively.  Would rather give Robles and Thomas the job. Don’t see how it’s much of an upgrade and probably whoever TB gets from the Nats will turn into a good player.

Offline Slateman

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So they won’t do what they did this year?  Ok.
No becausr they dont have the payroll

Offline Slateman

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I would be wary of trading with TB. The guy has mediocre offensive stats. Great defensively.  Would rather give Robles and Thomas the job. Don’t see how it’s much of an upgrade and probably whoever TB gets from the Nats will turn into a good player.
Thomas is a corner OFer. And in this scenario, the Nats are trading Robles or he's spending the bulk of next season in Triple A

Offline Natsinpwc

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Thomas is a corner OFer. And in this scenario, the Nats are trading Robles or he's spending the bulk of next season in Triple A
Whatever you say.  I am sure the Nats are going to take on additional salary to get them a couple more wins over a season.  That should push them to 72 wins instead of 70.  And then two years later you still need a CF. Some of the delusional thinking here has taken hold of you. 

Offline varoadking

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Whatever you say.  I am sure the Nats are going to take on additional salary to get them a couple more wins over a season.  That should push them to 72 wins instead of 70.  And then two years later you still need a CF. Some of the delusional thinking here has taken hold of you.

Nat's won't be competitive for years...hopefully, Juan is still around to help make that happen.  2022 will be a nightmare of a season...

Offline Slateman

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Whatever you say.  I am sure the Nats are going to take on additional salary to get them a couple more wins over a season.  That should push them to 72 wins instead of 70.  And then two years later you still need a CF. Some of the delusional thinking here has taken hold of you. 
They take the salary to get the prospect(s) that the Rays send with Kiermaier

Offline Natsinpwc

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They take the salary to get the prospect(s) that the Rays send with Kiermaier
Beware trading with the Rays.  They will fleece us. 

Offline Slateman

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Beware trading with the Rays.  They will fleece us. 
Lol, Trea Turner for Steven Souza Jr says hi

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Lol, Trea Turner for Steven Souza Jr says hi
joe Ross is :smh:

I buy being wary of TB but they can also be taken advantage of when you have different goals than they do. They have a big, big, roster squeeze: 52+ players for 40 slots. You can grab guys off their roster if you take on salary and deal them guys who do not have to be rostered. It is likely they will grab a guy who in 4 years may be an mlb regular. In fact, that's exactly who they will target. But you can get maybe a future piece or two who can help over the next 3 years while you have Soto and a vet who will not be a black hole in the lineup and potentially dealable at the deadline.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Lol, Trea Turner for Steven Souza Jr says hi
Trea was in the Rays org?  Didn't know that.

Offline Five Banners

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Trea was in the Rays org?  Didn't know that.

From the wiki page:

“On December 19, 2014, the Padres reportedly agreed to trade Turner to the Washington Nationals as a player to be named later as part of a three-team trade, in which the Padres traded Jake Bauers, Burch Smith, and René Rivera to the Tampa Bay Rays and Joe Ross to Washington, and Washington traded Steven Souza and Travis Ott to Tampa Bay, and Tampa traded Wil Myers to San Diego.”

Offline Natsinpwc

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From the wiki page:

“On December 19, 2014, the Padres reportedly agreed to trade Turner to the Washington Nationals as a player to be named later as part of a three-team trade, in which the Padres traded Jake Bauers, Burch Smith, and René Rivera to the Tampa Bay Rays and Joe Ross to Washington, and Washington traded Steven Souza and Travis Ott to Tampa Bay, and Tampa traded Wil Myers to San Diego.”
Yea, I knew that--was being sarcastic.