When do the Nationals become competitive in the NL east again?

[Smithian]

Lol. Why would a Dodger fan, who’s team is in a dogfight for the best record in baseball and is the the most talented team in the league, spend any time registering on a Nationals fam site to write this nonsense?

He's trolling but the question is valid.

[Slateman]

If the Nationals want to compete next year, they can. It would be hard, but it can be done.

If they don't try for it next year, they will in 2023 while they have Soto.

People overrate how long it takes to turn around. It takes a bit of luck, but there are always free agents to be had and non-contenders looking to dump players in arbitration. The Josh Harrison, Josh Bell, etc. types are always out there. Pitchers is always available. Just a question if you're willing to take on payroll and risk the chance it won't work out.

I dont think the Lerners care very much about competing next year. They got their title. They're gonna try maximize profits

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Both of them are still in the bargaining stage of grief

Orioles fans are just sad to be around.

[Smithian]

I dont think the Lerners care very much about competing next year. They got their title. They're gonna try maximize profits

I personally would be surprised if they went for it. I think the easier approach is actually smarter; make tweaks on the edges and see out of the gate how young guys are doing and if Strasburg and Corbin are giving you anything. If the answers there are positive, you can load up at the deadline.

The upcoming labor battle makes it hard to predict anything.

[Five Banners]

The upcoming labor battle makes it hard to predict anything.

This

[welch]

I dont think the Lerners care very much about competing next year. They got their title. They're gonna try maximize profits

No evidence for this assertion.

[Slateman]

No evidence for this assertion.

Other than the last two seasons, sure.

[dodgersfanb]

The point was they weren't winning. 8 games back is insurmountable for a team that cant post a winning record.
Well, I don't know if you know this, but thr Dodgers moved to Los Angeles after the 1957 season.

Being 8 games back wasn't insurmountable. Bell, Harrison, Lester,Gomes  Schwarber, Turner have been fantastic since the trade. Max is 5-0, has allowed five earned runs over 43 innings (1.05 ERA) with 63 strikeouts since  joining LA

[bluestreak]

Being 8 games back wasn't insurmountable. Bell, Harrison, Lester, Schwarber, Turner have been fantastic since the trade. Max is 5-0, has allowed five earned runs over 43 innings (1.05 ERA) with 63 strikeouts since  joining LA

Again, is Max pitching every game? And then coming out of the bullpen?

[welch]

Other than the last two seasons, sure.

That is an empty generalization, or a fixed belief in "things unseen". 2020 team had the payroll and was the same team as 2019 except that the Nats lost Rendon rather than Strasburg. Also added Castro and Kyle Schwarber, plus Brad Hand and utility guys like Josh Harrison.

[Slateman]

Being 8 games back wasn't insurmountable. Bell, Harrison, Lester,Gomes  Schwarber, Turner have been fantastic since the trade. Max is 5-0, has allowed five earned runs over 43 innings (1.05 ERA) with 63 strikeouts since  joining LA

It was absolutely insurmountable for a team with two starting pitchers with ERAs north of 5, and a bullpen that cant keep other teams from scoring.

The offense is better now than with Turner, Gones, Harrison, and Schwarber.

[Slateman]

That is an empty generalization, or a fixed belief in "things unseen". 2020 team had the payroll and was the same team as 2019 except that the Nats lost Rendon rather than Strasburg. Also added Castro and Kyle Schwarber, plus Brad Hand and utility guys like Josh Harrison.

Lerners chose to sign the contract with the person willing to accept deferred money.

Lerners only allowed Rizzo to sign cheaper, short term deals.

Lerners werent willing to sign Turner to an extension.

[bluestreak]

I dont think the Lerners care very much about competing next year. They got their title. They're gonna try maximize profits

If they want to maximize profits and not compete in the next two years, then it makes sense to trade Soto for some team’s entire farm system. Payroll will be minuscule. Then you can get to the point where you are competitive (and therefore getting lots of butts in seats) more quickly and cheaply than with a piecemeal rebuild.

[The Chief]

Removed some posts.  Let's try to be a bit more welcoming to new posters.  It's possible to disagree with the content of their posts without dogpiling.

[dodgersfanb]

Again, is Max pitching every game? And then coming out of the bullpen?

The Nationals would have one of the top 3 offenses in baseball, Lester has allowed only one run in three consecutive appearances, this team could have made some moves at the deadline and been competitive at the end for a  division like the NL east this year.

[Natsinpwc]

The Nationals would have one of the top 3 offenses in baseball, Lester has allowed only one run in three consecutive appearances, this team could have made some moves at the deadline and been competitive at the end for some crappy division like the NL east

So they should have traded the few good prospects they have to be competitive for a playoff birth and early exit.  Great.

And guess what.  Lester will revert to his bad performance the rest of this year. 

[bluestreak]

The Nationals would have one of the top 3 offenses in baseball, Lester has allowed only one run in three consecutive appearances, this team could have made some moves at the deadline and been competitive at the end for a  division like the NL east this year.

The team has a bullpen ERA just under 5 and it’s the fifth worst in baseball. This team wasn’t winning crap.

[Natsinpwc]

Even in a division without a top team it looks like it will take at least 86 wins for the division.  So from the trade deadline the Nats would have had to win about two of every three games to have a chance. That’s why the odds were so low for them at the time.

[imref]

Even in a division without a top team it looks like it will take at least 86 wins for the division.  So from the trade deadline the Nats would have had to win about two of every three games to have a chance. That’s why the odds were so low for them at the time.

Gray replaced Scherzer in the rotation and has made six starts.  He's allowed 2 runs or less in four of them, 3 runs in one, and six runs in his most recent start. So that amounts to what, one extra win?

Turner / Escobar instead of Escobar / Garcia maybe gives you 3 more wins?

So we're 60 and 77 instead of 57-80

[Mattionals]

Gray replaced Scherzer in the rotation and has made six starts.  He's allowed 2 runs or less in four of them, 3 runs in one, and six runs in his most recent start. So that amounts to what, one extra win?

Turner / Escobar instead of Escobar / Garcia maybe gives you 3 more wins?

So we're 60 and 77 instead of 57-80

Stop using logic! 

[Natsinpwc]

Stop using logic! 

Throw in a couple more for Hudson and three for good luck and they could 65 wins.

[welch]

The Nationals would have one of the top 3 offenses in baseball, Lester has allowed only one run in three consecutive appearances, this team could have made some moves at the deadline and been competitive at the end for a  division like the NL east this year.

I think the problem in July was that the Nats could trust only Max to start given that Strasburg was determined to need surgery, and that Patrick Corbin continued to fall apart every start; in addition, the hitting disappeared when Kyle Schwarber got hurt and Starlin Castro was dismissed for domestic violence, and the boy-wonder CF, Robles, crashed. Schwarber had been leading off every game with a home run in June, so losing him might have made the difference. Yes, Schwarber was on an unusual streak, but even a good Schwarber might have been enough for the team to avoid trading away everybody, and, instead, to add an experienced starting pitcher (or two).

Think about the Nats at the end of June, rather than at the trade deadline. By July 31, there was no hope of winning.

Lester was the worst pitcher I have seen since some of the hopeless Nats teams of 2006 - 2009, or the expansion teams, or some of the no-hopers that Calvin Griffith collected in the late 1950s.

[nfotiu]

Lerners chose to sign the contract with the person willing to accept deferred money.

Lerners only allowed Rizzo to sign cheaper, short term deals.

Lerners werent willing to sign Turner to an extension.

Is there any evidence that deferred money played any factor in that decision?   Rizzo has always been more comfortable with big long term deals to pitchers vs position players.

Where's the evidence that Lerners only wanted short term deals?   That seems more like Rizzo trying to manage windows of competitiveness.

I don't see much talk of the Lerners balking at signing Trea.   I don't think Trea was the guy that Rizzo wanted to throw a megadeal at.


It seems the Lerners are ok allowing Rizzo to spend to lux tax cap.   They get involved in the long term mega deals, but I don't think Rizzo sees paying guys 35 million until they are 40 as a path to constructing a perennially contending team.   

[Turnertheburner]

Turnertheburner here ..... you guys are hammering Dodgersfan as bad as you did me. No I'm not him (or her). These new late nights following Trea and the Dodgers are killing me but being in the chase makes it all worth it. For what's it's worth (I'm sure nothing to you guys  ) I think Dodgersfan made some good points. 

[Duke of Earl]

37 year old Max throws  8 innings, 13 strikeouts. He is still a Cy young candidate. The Dodgers would be crazy not to re sign Max. Trea turner is a Nl mvp candidate. Schwarber is playing fantastic. Gomes, Harrison playing fantastic. Lester has been a brilliant pick up for the Cardinals.

The Nationals would be leading the NL east now if they hadn't blown up this massively talented team

So what part of this is nonsense? The Nationals were a very talented team before this fiasco

Nothing. None of it is nonsense. Your description, "massively talented team" is right on target. Among the names you mentioned, in addition we gave up our two best relievers.

The team went into a horrendous tailspin late July, with some very embarrassing losses, in particular, we were swept by the Orioles! The timing of that tailspin was unfortunate, every team has one, but we did it at the deadline. And I think  blowing it up was an emotional rather than sensible decision. If the tailspin had been a month earlier we'd have rebounded by the deadline.  And right now we would be enjoying a division race which I think we'd have won, but it wouldn't matter, there would have been exciting baseball for two months, rather than the pitiful garbage we're stuck with.