Author Topic: Carter Kieboom 2021  (Read 1104 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #50: October 06, 2021, 01:42:47 PM »
FWIW, Kieboom I think has used 3 options - 2019 when he came up for Trea, this year, and I think last year as well.  I don't think he can be sent to AAA next year.  Anyone have better information? 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #51: October 06, 2021, 02:13:02 PM »
Baloney.

Kieboom hit .236 with a mighty 5 homers at Rochester, for an OPS of .761. He had a good year in Fresno in 2019, but that's it. He flopped in the majors in 2020 and this season. He is an erratic fielder, which a team can't have at third. Baseball Ref estimates Kieboom as a -1 WAR player. Sure, let him compete with Noll in Spring Training, but Kieboom belongs at Rochester, which needs decent minor league ballplayers to keep fans going to games.


Still ignoring the career .864 OPS in Triple A, I see

Offline imref

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #52: October 06, 2021, 02:38:31 PM »
Still ignoring the career .864 OPS in Triple A, I see

Everyone hits in the PCL. Here's the list of players that year who had a higher OPS than Kieboom's .902 in 2019 (minimum 350 ABs):
Yadiel - 1.010
Matt Reynolds - .922
Jose Mamolejos - .911

Andrew Stevenson posted a .886 OPS that year as well in Fresno.

For a more complete comparison:
Stevenson: .334 / .383 / .503
Kieboom: .303 / .409 / .493

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #53: October 06, 2021, 02:49:40 PM »
FWIW, Kieboom I think has used 3 options - 2019 when he came up for Trea, this year, and I think last year as well.  I don't think he can be sent to AAA next year.  Anyone have better information?

Spotrac shows him as having 2 left going into this year.  I assume that is based on him getting a fourth.  As a 2016 draftee, 2021 is his fifth full season as a pro, meaning using 3 options in the first five would automatically generate a fourth.  Fedde had a fourth as well.  It may also be due to 2020 possibly not counting as a "full" season for this rule: I don't know where MLB ever came out on that.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #54: October 06, 2021, 02:56:35 PM »
FWIW, Kieboom I think has used 3 options - 2019 when he came up for Trea, this year, and I think last year as well.  I don't think he can be sent to AAA next year.  Anyone have better information? 
Spotrac shows him as having 2 left going into this year.  I assume that is based on him getting a fourth.  As a 2016 draftee, 2021 is his fifth full season as a pro, meaning using 3 options in the first five would automatically generate a fourth.  Fedde had a fourth as well.  It may also be due to 2020 possibly not counting as a "full" season for this rule: I don't know where MLB ever came out on that.
It doesnt matter. He's shown he can hit at every level except the majors. Theres nothing for him to do down there.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #55: October 06, 2021, 03:02:29 PM »
It doesnt matter. He's shown he can hit at every level except the majors. Theres nothing for him to do down there.

He could use defensive work.  But I don't think that's worth sending him down.  It's more important to find out whether he can learn to hit MLB pitching.  It's not like the MLB team is going to win much next year, so if he hits but is still crap in the field then you've learned what you need to and done so faster than you would by optioning him.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #56: October 06, 2021, 03:03:56 PM »
He can't play.  We are wasting everybody's time continuing to run him out there in the hopes that the switch gets flipped.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #57: October 06, 2021, 03:08:25 PM »
He can't play.  We are wasting everybody's time continuing to run him out there in the hopes that the switch gets flipped.

This is where actually watching minor league games matters.  In the minors, dude looks like a stud and did all the way up.  He's a good ballplayer relative to even other high-minors guys, especially relative to his age at every level.

At the top level, everything is different.  Given that his defense is worse too - with no obvious reason - I'd be tempted to send him to a shrink. I'm tempted to wonder how much his older brother's career has stuck in his head.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #58: October 06, 2021, 04:06:56 PM »
He can't play.  We are wasting everybody's time continuing to run him out there in the hopes that the switch gets flipped.

Who's time?

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #59: October 06, 2021, 04:08:31 PM »
This is where actually watching minor league games matters.  In the minors, dude looks like a stud and did all the way up.  He's a good ballplayer relative to even other high-minors guys, especially relative to his age at every level.

At the top level, everything is different.  Given that his defense is worse too - with no obvious reason - I'd be tempted to send him to a shrink. I'm tempted to wonder how much his older brother's career has stuck in his head.

Interesting thought that would have never crossed my mind.  Spencer being a bust and now the pressure is on him to "prove" that the sacrafices the family made for them both were not for naught. He certainly doesn't look happy when approaching the plate.

Offline hotshot

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #60: October 06, 2021, 04:32:18 PM »
Anyone really doubt that, at this point, Noll would outhit Kieboom in the majors, if given a shot like Yadi finally got this year? Not saying Jake is at Yadi's level with the stick but ... IMO, better than Kieboom. 

Offline varoadking

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #61: October 06, 2021, 05:10:35 PM »
He certainly doesn't look happy when approaching the plate.

...or in the field...looks like he'd rather be doing anything but play baseball.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #62: October 06, 2021, 05:12:17 PM »
It doesnt matter. He's shown he can hit at every level except the majors. Theres nothing for him to do down there.
He could use defensive work.  But I don't think that's worth sending him down.  It's more important to find out whether he can learn to hit MLB pitching.  It's not like the MLB team is going to win much next year, so if he hits but is still crap in the field then you've learned what you need to and done so faster than you would by optioning him.
flexibility has value not only for the Nats but also for an acquiring team were he in a package.  I take it he has a 4th option, which is good. I want some insurance in case he has a bad spring, but I'm assuming this team is in a mode like it was going into 2021 and not in a complete write off.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #63: October 06, 2021, 05:29:26 PM »
Anyone really doubt that, at this point, Noll would outhit Kieboom in the majors, if given a shot like Yadi finally got this year? Not saying Jake is at Yadi's level with the stick but ... IMO, better than Kieboom. 
This season? Sure. But Noll wont be an MLB average hitter either, so why bother? Guy is a backup/role player with no upside

Offline welch

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #64: October 06, 2021, 06:20:14 PM »
Kieboom had an OPS+ of 72 this season, an OPS of .619 to go with his .207 average, 62 strikeouts in about 60 games and 250 plate appearances. He hit .236 with a .760 OPS at Rochester. If that makes him a proven AAA hitter, then let him stay in Rochester. Of course he should be invited to Spring Training, along with Jake Noll and with a player to be found later who is at least a mediocre major league hitter.

Kieboom cannot hit major league pitching. He has demonstrated that. If a miracle happens and, somehow, he can hit in the big time, that's nice. My all-time favorite third-baseman did not make it until he was 23, although that guy only had two seasons in the minors. Then he had an OPS of .870 and an OPS+ of 137. He was a crude third-baseman, but if Kieboom could break through like that we would all be happy.

Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #65: October 06, 2021, 06:30:23 PM »
...or in the field...looks like he'd rather be doing anything but play baseball.
  Maybe he'd prefer hockey.  The Habs could probably use him.  They suck too.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #66: October 06, 2021, 06:33:22 PM »
  Maybe he'd prefer hockey.  The Habs could probably use him.  They suck too.

This is their year...  :thumbs:

Offline varoadking

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #67: October 06, 2021, 06:35:32 PM »

I don't understand the fascination with Jake Noll...

...just like I don't understand the fascination with Kiebust or Robust...

Find us some legit MLB players for keeeeeeeeeeeeeriste sake...

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #68: October 06, 2021, 07:16:55 PM »


Find us some legit MLB players for keeeeeeeeeeeeeriste sake...
Cost too much.

Offline hotshot

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #69: October 06, 2021, 08:12:12 PM »
This season? Sure. But Noll wont be an MLB average hitter either, so why bother? Guy is a backup/role player with no upside
Noll has been one of the team's better ST hitters over a number of camps now. Hit .300 in Triple A this year, didn't he? He and Yadi were two minor league prospects it wasn't hard to identify as being good hitters.

Your appraisal may actually be too kind as it doesn't seem the Nats even consider Noll the backup/role player you tout him as.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #70: October 06, 2021, 09:13:31 PM »
Esccobar seems to have earned consideration for another year.

Done. Nice early signing for next year.

Offline blue911

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #71: October 07, 2021, 12:44:34 AM »
Interesting thought that would have never crossed my mind.  Spencer being a bust and now the pressure is on him to "prove" that the sacrafices the family made for them both were not for naught. He certainly doesn't look happy when approaching the plate.

He wasn’t a bust. He was taken with the 174th pick in the draft and has the 7th highest career WAR for that draft slot. I think your expectations are unrealistically high.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #72: October 07, 2021, 10:30:55 AM »
He wasn’t a bust. He was taken with the 174th pick in the draft and has the 7th highest career WAR for that draft slot. I think your expectations are unrealistically high.

From my chair it's not that Spencer was a bust - as you note, he wasn't - but that his career arc featured a steady progression up through the minors with at least reasonable numbers (given that he was a catcher) and then hitting a wall at that point.  I can see that affecting a younger brother who was a teenager while most of that happened.

Offline blue911

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #73: October 07, 2021, 11:08:02 AM »
From my chair it's not that Spencer was a bust - as you note, he wasn't - but that his career arc featured a steady progression up through the minors with at least reasonable numbers (given that he was a catcher) and then hitting a wall at that point.  I can see that affecting a younger brother who was a teenager while most of that happened.

I think it’s the change-up but I would agree that there’s some mental crap thrown in.

Offline welch

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Re: Carter Kieboom 2021
« Reply #74: October 07, 2021, 01:56:47 PM »
I think it’s the change-up but I would agree that there’s some mental crap thrown in.

Or that both Kiebooms progressed steadily through the minors and found that they cannot hit major league pitching.