Author Topic: Looking ahead to 2022  (Read 4382 times)

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Offline YadiSTAR aka Smithian

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #175: September 08, 2021, 03:44:43 PM »
So think of this rotation next year if Strasburg cannot pitch

Corbin
Fedde
Gray
Rogers
Espino

And then put aside any hopes of competing next year.  Or maybe they can pick up Lester in the cheap since our Dodger fan friend says he has been so great. 
When did we become a club that isn't aggressive in free agency and on the trade market?

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #176: September 08, 2021, 03:51:04 PM »
When did we become a club that isn't aggressive in free agency and on the trade market?
Uh .... since 2019, after the Lerners got their championship

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #177: September 08, 2021, 03:56:47 PM »
When did we become a club that isn't aggressive in free agency and on the trade market?
There are just too many holes to fill.  How much would it cost to add 2 starters, several bullpen pieces, a 2B or 3B, and a LF and maybe CF?  They are in a rebuild.  Wake up and smell the rebuild coffee.  They will go for some moderately priced veterans and then hope Strasburg is back and Corbin gets better.  Then you can add at the deadline. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #178: September 08, 2021, 04:05:22 PM »
If we add free agents, they need to fit into one of two categories:

1. Relatively young and will still be productive in 2023 and 2024 (Seager, Rodriguez, Schwarber, Story)

2. One year deal gambles that wont impact the franchise long term

Offline greven

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #179: September 08, 2021, 04:48:34 PM »
Uh .... since 2019, after the Lerners got their championship
I thought our payroll was always right up to the luxury tax on opening day in both 2020 and 2021? This LAC narrative is so surreal

Offline welch

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #180: September 08, 2021, 04:52:11 PM »
If we add free agents, they need to fit into one of two categories:

1. Relatively young and will still be productive in 2023 and 2024 (Seager, Rodriguez, Schwarber, Story)

2. One year deal gambles that wont impact the franchise long term

Yes. My hope: two starting pitchers and a hitter.

- Syndegaard, maybe, since he is recovering from TJS. He's a gamble worth taking with team options.

- Steven Matz, has never made more than $5 million, and this is only his second productive year.

Those two for consideration, because we know them from the Muts, the organization that chews up pitchers and spits them out, and because I live in New York, where Met-ness is everywhere.

An OF who hits, another Schwarber, since it is easier to find a hitting OF than a SS who hits. Note, of course: Alcides is 34, and the only minor league SS is Antuna.

There are too many holes to fill all at once. Need another starting pitcher, for instance, and maybe Cavalli is The Guy, but he just got promoted to AAA. Maybe Robles will hit like the player he was supposed to be, which would give the Nats another star OF. Maybe.

Online varoadking

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #181: September 08, 2021, 04:59:53 PM »

You have almost $60MM a year tied up in two albatross pitchers who don't look promising for the next however many years.

That's gonna continue to cripple this team...

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #182: September 08, 2021, 05:57:42 PM »
You have almost $60MM a year tied up in two albatross pitchers who don't look promising for the next however many years.

That's gonna continue to cripple this team...
Most folks here are in denial. They don’t understand what is going on.  The Lerners will not spend much additional money until they have an idea how good guys like Cavalli and House are. And until they have a better idea if they can sign Soto. 

Someone like Matz is going to get at least $15 million and will get multiple years. I mean look at what Corbin got after one great years. No reason to pursue guys like that.  They will be shopping at the Dollar Tree.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #183: September 08, 2021, 06:02:20 PM »
You have almost $60MM a year tied up in two albatross pitchers who don't look promising for the next however many years.

That's gonna continue to cripple this team...
Why should it?

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #184: September 08, 2021, 06:17:39 PM »
I thought our payroll was always right up to the luxury tax on opening day in both 2020 and 2021? This LAC narrative is so surreal
Are we signing Trea long term? I must have missed that. Problem is about 30 % of the salary is locked up in two unproductive pitchers as noted by another esteemed poster.  Another problem is that even if they want to sign big name free agents most don’t won’t to play for losing teams.  You have to overpay as they did with Werth. 

Online varoadking

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #185: September 08, 2021, 06:27:33 PM »
Why should it?

Because we aren't the Rays and don't have cheap guys lined up year after year to come up and play at the Major League level...least of all, pitchers...

Offline greven

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #186: September 08, 2021, 06:41:27 PM »
Are we signing Trea long term? I must have missed that. Problem is about 30 % of the salary is locked up in two unproductive pitchers as noted by another esteemed poster.  Another problem is that even if they want to sign big name free agents most don’t won’t to play for losing teams.  You have to overpay as they did with Werth. 
Since when is signing Trea long term the barometer between them being cheap or not?
They have continuously spent in the top 10 of the league for a decade. When you consider the relative mediocre-sized fanbase and the crapshow that is the masn situation, there are precious few owners I would take over the Lerners.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #187: September 08, 2021, 06:43:38 PM »
Because we aren't the Rays and don't have cheap guys lined up year after year to come up and play at the Major League level...least of all, pitchers...
1. The players have some residual value.
2. $60m represents 1% of the owners’ net worth.
3. How much money can one family use? The Nats are a profitable hobby.

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #188: September 08, 2021, 06:49:36 PM »
1. The players have some residual value.
2. $60m represents 1% of the owners’ net worth.
3. How much money can one family use? The Nats are a profitable hobby.
The owners have been emphatic about not going over the luxury tax. To the point where they had the guy fired who screwed up and put them over years ago.

So it doesnt matter how much money the owners have. They have a budget and wont exceed it

Offline hohoho

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #189: September 08, 2021, 06:50:24 PM »
Since when is signing Trea long term the barometer between them being cheap or not?
They have continuously spent in the top 10 of the league for a decade. When you consider the relative mediocre-sized fanbase and the crapshow that is the masn situation, there are precious few owners I would take over the Lerners.
Nonsense. Ted Lerner is the third richest owner in mlb, so no wonder they spend in the top 10.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #190: September 08, 2021, 06:51:05 PM »
The owners have been emphatic about not going over the luxury tax. To the point where they had the guy fired who screwed up and put them over years ago.

So it doesnt matter how much money the owners have. They have a budget and wont exceed it
Why not. Ted Lerner can’t take it with him.

Online varoadking

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #191: September 08, 2021, 06:51:30 PM »
1. The players have some residual value.
2. $60m represents 1% of the owners’ net worth.
3. How much money can one family use? The Nats are a profitable hobby.

Stras and Corbin have 0 value at present, actually less than 0, and you're dreamin' if you think the Lerners are going to go over the salary cap to field a competitive team. 

And why should they...the Rays are doing it year after year, and have a 2021 payroll of $71MM.


Offline greven

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #192: September 08, 2021, 06:56:05 PM »
Nonsense. Ted Lerner is the third richest owner in mlb, so no wonder they spend in the top 10.
Why would the owner's personal wealth have any weight in this? Does any other owner invest personal wealth into their team? Does any buisinessman ever? No? Then why do you expect the Lerners to?

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #193: September 08, 2021, 06:58:22 PM »
Why not. Ted Lerner can’t take it with him.
Because he doesnt want to

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #194: September 08, 2021, 07:14:59 PM »
Since when is signing Trea long term the barometer between them being cheap or not?
They have continuously spent in the top 10 of the league for a decade. When you consider the relative mediocre-sized fanbase and the crapshow that is the masn situation, there are precious few owners I would take over the Lerners.
That’s because since 2012 they were in a position to contend and win it all. They are not there now.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #195: September 08, 2021, 07:30:50 PM »
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be in a position to see what’s going to be required to compete under the new CBA and go from there. Until that’s done, who knows what the plans will be.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #196: September 08, 2021, 08:25:47 PM »
I could see them spending up to $140mm excluding Stras and Corbin. They have only $8MM locked in esides those two. Arb contracts for Soto and others will bump that up some, but there is a lot of flexibility in their spending plans.

Online varoadking

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #197: September 08, 2021, 09:25:00 PM »
I could see them spending up to $140mm excluding Stras and Corbin. They have only $8MM locked in esides those two. Arb contracts for Soto and others will bump that up some, but there is a lot of flexibility in their spending plans.

Makes it hard if you have to sign 4 starters...

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #198: September 08, 2021, 10:06:17 PM »
I could see them spending up to $140mm excluding Stras and Corbin. They have only $8MM locked in esides those two. Arb contracts for Soto and others will bump that up some, but there is a lot of flexibility in their spending plans.

I can't see $140m of good players (realistically 115 or so after Soto and Bell) available on short-term contracts, and I can't see them committing to more than one long-term investment-type contract.  I'm not sure there's a productive way to spend that much money at once, and I also suspect they will be reluctant to spend given the likely work stoppage. 

This team has too many holes and too many players they want to give time to for them to fill many of them with free agents.  You could easily spend that much money and still end up with a bad team, and it'd be a bad, old team to boot.  For example, you could do things like spend $10 million on relievers who aren't good.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #199: September 09, 2021, 09:10:00 AM »
I can't see $140m of good players (realistically 115 or so after Soto and Bell) available on short-term contracts, and I can't see them committing to more than one long-term investment-type contract.  I'm not sure there's a productive way to spend that much money at once, and I also suspect they will be reluctant to spend given the likely work stoppage. 

This team has too many holes and too many players they want to give time to for them to fill many of them with free agents.  You could easily spend that much money and still end up with a bad team, and it'd be a bad, old team to boot.  For example, you could do things like spend $10 million on relievers who aren't good.
I'm hoping for Cherington 2013 after the Punto trade and finding a bunch of Gomes / Napoli / Victorino / Ueharas out there to tack onto a Gray or Cavalli breakout and a bounceback of at least one of Corbin / Stras.  Easier to target than to realize. 

Realistically, I'd like maybe one building block signing and some patchwork with mostly "if he's good he's really good, if he's bad he's awful" short term gambles that can be treated like Barraclough and Rosenthal if they don't work out.  We laugh at the line up, but they have been scoring runs most days, TBH. 

I have a hard time believing there's 1 or fewer arms in the bullpen right now and no reliable rotation pieces, but I'll admit that faith-based and not based on 2021 performance.