Author Topic: Looking ahead to 2022  (Read 4387 times)

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Offline welch

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #150: September 02, 2021, 10:53:42 PM »
These are dark days, my friends. 

Sure are. In 2009 and 2010, Nats could draft Strasburg and Harper. They already had Zimmermann and Zimmerman. Then took a chance on Rendon. This feels as grim as 2008 or so.

Rizzo needs to sign two starting pitchers and probably a big right-handed hitter. That's a lot. Corbin shows no sign of finding whatever he lost. Fedde is a 5th starter and so is Espino. Mason Thompson isn't doing it. The relievers, in general, can look respectable and awful from game to game. 

Offline YadiSTAR aka Smithian

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #151: September 03, 2021, 12:08:16 PM »
Sure are. In 2009 and 2010, Nats could draft Strasburg and Harper. They already had Zimmermann and Zimmerman. Then took a chance on Rendon. This feels as grim as 2008 or so.

Rizzo needs to sign two starting pitchers and probably a big right-handed hitter. That's a lot. Corbin shows no sign of finding whatever he lost. Fedde is a 5th starter and so is Espino. Mason Thompson isn't doing it. The relievers, in general, can look respectable and awful from game to game. 
In 2008, we started Odalis Perez on opening day of a new park. We had no reason to believe we had an ownership that would spend. We had JimBo and Manny Acta steering the ship.

We now have an ownership we know will spend to get over the top, we have a GM who took over a 100-loss team and won a World Series, and a manager who has won a World Series Game 7 on the road.

This season sucks. We know that. But we have more reason to give the leadership benefit of the doubt than we did a dozen years ago.

Offline welch

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #152: September 03, 2021, 12:58:37 PM »
The now pitching reminds me of Matt Chico, Mike Backsik, Saul Rivera, Levale Speigner...all those forgotten guys. Yes, the Lerner family has money, unlike the Griffith family, and the Lerners will spend it. Yes, Rizzo knows what he is doing, and he spots talent. Just think of Alcides Escobar, Josh Harrison, plus Kyle Schwarber, or Gerardo Parra, Asdrubel Cabrera, Anibal Sanchez.

It is dismal to lose again and again, to sit through games in which the team takes a lead and stops hitting, or takes a lead and the starter blows it apart, or takes a lead and the bullpen hands back seven runs from the sixth onward, or when the rookie fielders drop the ball or throw to the wrong base, or forget to cover the base.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #153: September 03, 2021, 07:15:23 PM »
The now pitching reminds me of Matt Chico, Mike Backsik, Saul Rivera, Levale Speigner...all those forgotten guys. Yes, the Lerner family has money, unlike the Griffith family, and the Lerners will spend it. Yes, Rizzo knows what he is doing, and he spots talent. Just think of Alcides Escobar, Josh Harrison, plus Kyle Schwarber, or Gerardo Parra, Asdrubel Cabrera, Anibal Sanchez.

It is dismal to lose again and again, to sit through games in which the team takes a lead and stops hitting, or takes a lead and the starter blows it apart, or takes a lead and the bullpen hands back seven runs from the sixth onward, or when the rookie fielders drop the ball or throw to the wrong base, or forget to cover the base.
well, there's Gray, who already is better than most of the 2008 starters (was Lannan on that team? Shawn Hill?).  IF Stras surprises the medical experts on this board than that's another huge difference.  Cavalli is in the system and should be up next year.  I'm disappointed with most of the bullpen, other than Finnegan, not really seizing opportunities this year or regressing after decent prior years.  I think it is more 2010 than 2008 or 2006.  Bu you are right - we probably need to sign a starter or two, more of the Gausman / Miley / Lynn gambles than just a guy innings eaters. 

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #154: September 03, 2021, 08:26:59 PM »
After the Corbin debacle, all I ask is that if we give a guy ace money, he better have more than a one year track record of being an ace.  I’m extremely hesitant about rodon.  Wouldn’t mind gausman as he has a couple good years now and was drafted #4 overall by the Orioles so that would tickle my cockles

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #155: September 03, 2021, 08:44:10 PM »
well, there's Gray, who already is better than most of the 2008 starters (was Lannan on that team? Shawn Hill?).  IF Stras surprises the medical experts on this board than that's another huge difference.  Cavalli is in the system and should be up next year.  I'm disappointed with most of the bullpen, other than Finnegan, not really seizing opportunities this year or regressing after decent prior years.  I think it is more 2010 than 2008 or 2006.  Bu you are right - we probably need to sign a starter or two, more of the Gausman / Miley / Lynn gambles than just a guy innings eaters. 
Dont know that you can call Gausman a gamble anymore.

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #156: September 03, 2021, 08:45:05 PM »
After the Corbin debacle, all I ask is that if we give a guy ace money, he better have more than a one year track record of being an ace.  I’m extremely hesitant about rodon.  Wouldn’t mind gausman as he has a couple good years now and was drafted #4 overall by the Orioles so that would tickle my cockles
We didnt give Corbin ace money

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #157: September 03, 2021, 08:55:00 PM »
Dont know that you can call Gausman a gamble anymore.
no, what I meant was signing him before he figured it out. Now he commands years and money, but guys like him and Lynn were scrap heap cheap at one point.  For example, if CWS released Reynaldo Lopez, or if Jharrel Cotton were available, or Nate Eovaldi before 2018, we probably should round out the rotation with that type rather than an innings eater. Of course, Wade Miley was signed as an innings guy, but main point is no more 4+ year contracts for #2 starters who really only have 1 or two years of pitching at that level

Online Slateman

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #158: September 03, 2021, 08:58:36 PM »
So you want Dylan Bundy or Andrew Heaney

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #159: September 03, 2021, 09:17:20 PM »
So you want Dylan Bundy or Andrew Heaney
yes?  For 1 year and maybe an option?

Offline welch

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Re: Luis Garcia, our new man in the middle
« Reply #160: September 05, 2021, 10:44:02 AM »
Nats need two starting pitchers, including a number 1 / number 2 starter, plus a hitter. If the hitter is a SS or LF doesn't matter, although an hitting OF is usually easier to find. A Schwarber of 2022, whether infielder or outfielder.

Gray is the respectable starter, although Espino has turned into a solid number 4 or 5. Fedde is dangerous and Corbin is hopeless. Cavalli might pitch next year, but Rutledge and Henry are far away...if they ever are to make it.

Go with Escobar, at 35 years old, and hope that Garcia improves.

Incidentally, Gleyber Torres might be out as a Yankee starter. Maybe he will be trade-able as a 2B, although he can't play SS.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: Luis Garcia, our new man in the middle
« Reply #161: September 05, 2021, 10:50:51 AM »
Nats need two starting pitchers, including a number 1 / number 2 starter, plus a hitter. If the hitter is a SS or LF doesn't matter, although an hitting OF is usually easier to find. A Schwarber of 2022, whether infielder or outfielder.

Gray is the respectable starter, although Espino has turned into a solid number 4 or 5. Fedde is dangerous and Corbin is hopeless. Cavalli might pitch next year, but Rutledge and Henry are far away...if they ever are to make it.

Go with Escobar, at 35 years old, and hope that Garcia improves.

Incidentally, Gleyber Torres might be out as a Yankee starter. Maybe he will be trade-able as a 2B, although he can't play SS.

Agree they do not have a 1 and 2 starter for next year.  That screams they are in a rebuild and will be signing cheaper free agents to short term contracts while younger players develop.  Get ready for another long year in 2022. Maybe we will get lucky and the strike will last all year!

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Re: Luis Garcia, our new man in the middle
« Reply #162: September 05, 2021, 10:57:26 AM »
Nats need two starting pitchers, including a number 1 / number 2 starter, plus a hitter. If the hitter is a SS or LF doesn't matter, although an hitting OF is usually easier to find. A Schwarber of 2022, whether infielder or outfielder.

Gray is the respectable starter, although Espino has turned into a solid number 4 or 5. Fedde is dangerous and Corbin is hopeless. Cavalli might pitch next year, but Rutledge and Henry are far away...if they ever are to make it.

Go with Escobar, at 35 years old, and hope that Garcia improves.

Incidentally, Gleyber Torres might be out as a Yankee starter. Maybe he will be trade-able as a 2B, although he can't play SS.


I doubt the Nats are going to set sights on competing next season. They will probably role with Cavalli and Gray turning into their number one and number two starters respectively. I don't think the Nats are going to trade any prospects this off-season to improve the major league club. I expect them to spend on somebody in free agency, not sure if they go LF, SS, 2B, 3B, or a pitcher.


Biggest thing I see is pitching. Gray is an obvious yes. Espino is fine as a 5. Finnegan is pretty good but I don't know if he is a first division closer, but he surely is throwing strikes and not trying to dance around batters. Thompson and Klobosits look like mid relief guys at best, Harper has proven he fits as a mid reliever, and everyone else is pure trash. Fedde, Voth, Clay, Machado, Nolin, Murphy, all those guys are all AAAA trash and are depth pieces on a good team. Baldonado did well in 3 innings, so let's see what he has.

Offline welch

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #163: September 05, 2021, 05:31:29 PM »

I doubt the Nats are going to set sights on competing next season. They will probably role with Cavalli and Gray turning into their number one and number two starters respectively. I don't think the Nats are going to trade any prospects this off-season to improve the major league club. I expect them to spend on somebody in free agency, not sure if they go LF, SS, 2B, 3B, or a pitcher.


Biggest thing I see is pitching. Gray is an obvious yes. Espino is fine as a 5. Finnegan is pretty good but I don't know if he is a first division closer, but he surely is throwing strikes and not trying to dance around batters. Thompson and Klobosits look like mid relief guys at best, Harper has proven he fits as a mid reliever, and everyone else is pure trash. Fedde, Voth, Clay, Machado, Nolin, Murphy, all those guys are all AAAA trash and are depth pieces on a good team. Baldonado did well in 3 innings, so let's see what he has.

Patrick Murphy might be better than AAAA, and we saw Baldonado do OK today. The rest of the pitchers mentioned are not trustworthy. Not 8th inning guys, but maybe adequate for the 6th or 5th. Fedde and Voth need to go. Aslo Suero. And Gray has had two consecutive implosions, so there's nothing guaranteed with him.

If the Nats can't compete in 2022, then it pushes them out to 2023 or 2026, when the just-drafted (and to-be-drafted) kids are ready. Unless the Nats sign Soto, he will be gone in after 2022 or 2023, leaving no back-bone position players.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #164: September 05, 2021, 05:46:28 PM »
Baldanado, Murphy, and machado all deserve to be in the pen next year as does finnegan.  That leaves 4 spots to be filled.  I’d guess Thompson ends up making it.  Harris will at least start the year in the pen before maybe getting released once the team realizes he’s cooked.  Klobosits still has options so keep him in AAA as depth along with Rainey.  Cronin also needs a look. 


Offline Mattionals

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #165: September 05, 2021, 07:24:55 PM »
And Gray has had two consecutive implosions, so there's nothing guaranteed with him.


TINSTAAPP. Give him more time though. Most young starters have a couple of clunkers before putting it together. We've seen that with the likes of Scherzer, JZimm, Stras, Giolito, Walker Buehler, Dustin May, etc. Not every pitcher comes up and just straight dominates unless your name is Jacob deGrom or Clayton Kershaw.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #166: September 05, 2021, 09:52:55 PM »
I’m not sure that not one of our 13 throwers could play for a contending team. As one of our members so adroitly pointed out prior to Gray being inserted into our rotation that he had a propensity to give up HR’s He has certainly lived up to that reputation. To those who have suggested that he could be the OD pitcher or at least be our # 2, I believe you are a little premature.

Offline hohoho

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Re: Re: Luis Garcia, our new man in the middle
« Reply #167: September 05, 2021, 10:11:06 PM »

They will probably role with Cavalli and Gray turning into their number one and number two starters respectively.
Good luck with that. A pitcher who was never on a major league roster and one who hasn’t shown much except a tendency to give up hrs.

Offline MorseTheHorse

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #168: September 05, 2021, 11:29:18 PM »
Ship out Soto for multiple teams worth of minor league prospects, and let's all come back here in 5 years...

Offline English Natsie

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #169: September 06, 2021, 07:37:19 AM »
Looking ahead to 2022, I'm thinking about re-decorating the guest bedroom with some nice pastel shades.... ;)

Offline hotshot

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #170: September 06, 2021, 08:20:43 AM »
Yes, the Lerner family has money, unlike the Griffith family, and the Lerners will spend it.
All true. But, the Lerners wealth pales compared to what Steve Cohen has, and their willingness to spend is also significantly less than he is apparently driven to invest.

Offline welch

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #171: September 08, 2021, 01:37:39 PM »
Maria Torres, reporting in The Athletic:

Quote
The Nationals likely will consider filling one of the holes in next year’s starting rotation with Josh Rogers, the left-hander they signed to a minor-league contract after the Orioles released him in early June. Rogers, 27, had Tommy John surgery in 2019. He didn’t return to game action until this season. Before throwing 5 2/3 innings of four-hit ball in a win over the Mets Saturday night, Rogers produced a 3.95 ERA in 14 games for the Red Wings. Opponents hit him at a .256/.317/.406 clip. He struck out 54 over 78 2/3 innings.

Rogers doesn’t throw an overpowering heater but he proved Saturday it can generate swing-and-miss. The fastball, which averaged 90 mph and accounted for 60 percent of the 87 pitches he threw, drew seven whiffs. It also was called for a strike eight times.

Rogers would have been on schedule to pitch Thursday but he will instead be fit into the rotation during the Nationals’ upcoming series in Pittsburgh.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #172: September 08, 2021, 02:38:08 PM »
So think of this rotation next year if Strasburg cannot pitch

Corbin
Fedde
Gray
Rogers
Espino

And then put aside any hopes of competing next year.  Or maybe they can pick up Lester in the cheap since our Dodger fan friend says he has been so great. 

Offline imref

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #173: September 08, 2021, 03:00:21 PM »
So think of this rotation next year if Strasburg cannot pitch

Corbin
Fedde
Gray
Rogers
Espino

And then put aside any hopes of competing next year.  Or maybe they can pick up Lester in the cheap since our Dodger fan friend says he has been so great. 

Cavelli is likely to be up at some point, but if not, that's at least a 40 win club. 

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Looking ahead to 2022
« Reply #174: September 08, 2021, 03:16:14 PM »
Cavelli is likely to be up at some point, but if not, that's at least a 40 win club.
I say 50.