Author Topic: CBA Negotiations- 2022  (Read 4304 times)

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Offline imref

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #1: August 18, 2021, 08:35:08 PM »
Given how many teams were above $185 million vs how few were below $100 million (and how close most under were to $100 million), this seems like a nonstarter

Offline varoadking

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #2: August 18, 2021, 08:58:26 PM »
Given how many teams were above $185 million vs how few were below $100 million (and how close most under were to $100 million), this seems like a nonstarter

...and we're sucking wind with almost $60MM in dead money to Strasburg and Corbin...

Offline Mattionals

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #3: August 18, 2021, 09:10:47 PM »
Saw some of the back and forth on MLBTR about this and honestly, if the MLB offered that as their starting point, I think they are fueling the fires for work stoppage.

Should have started with at least 110 floor and 205 luxury tax. I doubt the tax will go down from where it is at 210, but offering something that low makes me think the owners don't care about the real threat of work stoppage.

Billionaires and Multi-millionaires not at all having an idea of what the environment is like. Not surprised.....

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #4: August 18, 2021, 09:43:14 PM »
It will be interesting to see how they offer to enforce the minimum.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #5: August 18, 2021, 10:28:08 PM »
It will be interesting to see how they offer to enforce the minimum.

Do like the NFL, take the deficiency and put it into a pool to give to players who were on the team.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #6: August 18, 2021, 10:35:47 PM »
Do like the NFL, take the deficiency and put it into a pool to give to players who were on the team.

I remember hearing a story, I think it was the 76ers, where the players on a tanking team were furious that the team took on salary at the deadline and cost everyone delinquency funds

Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #7: September 28, 2021, 05:44:37 PM »
That seems pretty arbitrary to have a cap based on what they paid for the team years ago.

Rizzo and the Lerners both are willing to spend money when it makes sense.   It's not necessarily a slam dunk that signing Soto or anyone for 40-50 million for 13 years is smart for the team's on field success.

Boras is bad for baseball, and I hope the new CBA can do something about it.  Boras's approach just leads to most of the star players leaving the cities where they are popular to go play out their career on a crappy team and get their 40 million a year for years past their prime.

It's counter intuitive, but maybe it's time to lower free agency age by 2-3 years and cap contracts at 10 years.

The NHL caps contracts at 8 years with your current team, and 7 years if signing with a new team...

Offline hohoho

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Re: Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #8: September 28, 2021, 07:03:41 PM »
That seems pretty arbitrary to have a cap based on what they paid for the team years ago.

Rizzo and the Lerners both are willing to spend money when it makes sense.   It's not necessarily a slam dunk that signing Soto or anyone for 40-50 million for 13 years is smart for the team's on field success.

Boras is bad for baseball, and I hope the new CBA can do something about it.  Boras's approach just leads to most of the star players leaving the cities where they are popular to go play out their career on a crappy team and get their 40 million a year for years past their prime.

It's counter intuitive, but maybe it's time to lower free agency age by 2-3 years and cap contracts at 10 years.
So billionaire owners can be greedy “when it makes sense” but when millionaire players are greedy it’s  “bad for baseball” and there is a need to do “something about it”.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #9: September 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM »
So billionaire owners can be greedy “when it makes sense” but when millionaire players are greedy it’s  “bad for baseball” and there is a need to do “something about it”.

Yes, because the doing something about it generally equates to limiting expenditures for the billionaires

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #10: September 28, 2021, 09:39:49 PM »
So billionaire owners can be greedy “when it makes sense” but when millionaire players are greedy it’s  “bad for baseball” and there is a need to do “something about it”.
I'm just looking out for myself as a fan.   Also not just from a Nats perspective, as the Red Sox, Astros and Cubs are letting their big guys go too.  The CBA is funneling the big money to guys past their prime, and the well run clubs have grown wise to that not making sense.

The owners are going to spend about the same anyways, I think there needs to be a correction on where they spend money.   From a purely unemotional perspective, it was absolutely the right decision to keep Rendon and Harper through their cost controlled years, and not give them an extension during those years that would have taken away that advantage.   There should be some risk/reward thoughts in players to take the sure money now in exchange for not risking it all for most possible years and dollars, but Boras has convinced his players to take the risk nearly every time.   It's created a situation where there is no incentive for a team to sign a player (and lose the advantage of being able to build around cost controlled stars), and no incentive for a player to sign an extension into free agency.


Offline hohoho

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Re: Re: Extend Soto
« Reply #11: September 28, 2021, 10:05:36 PM »
I'm just looking out for myself as a fan.   Also not just from a Nats perspective, as the Red Sox, Astros and Cubs are letting their big guys go too.  The CBA is funneling the big money to guys past their prime, and the well run clubs have grown wise to that not making sense.

The owners are going to spend about the same anyways, I think there needs to be a correction on where they spend money.   From a purely unemotional perspective, it was absolutely the right decision to keep Rendon and Harper through their cost controlled years, and not give them an extension during those years that would have taken away that advantage.   There should be some risk/reward thoughts in players to take the sure money now in exchange for not risking it all for most possible years and dollars, but Boras has convinced his players to take the risk nearly every time.   It's created a situation where there is no incentive for a team to sign a player (and lose the advantage of being able to build around cost controlled stars), and no incentive for a player to sign an extension into free agency.
As a fan, I don’t care how much the owners spend. It’s not my money and they have lots of it.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #12: September 30, 2021, 07:59:29 AM »
Every other league has a mechanism that incentivizes signing with your current team. Baseball doesn’t. I think it’s better for the game when there is some continuity with the superstars.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #13: September 30, 2021, 08:19:47 AM »
Every other league has a mechanism that incentivizes signing with your current team. Baseball doesn’t. I think it’s better for the game when there is some continuity with the superstars.

I agree, but basketball has warped it to the point where players sign and then force a trade. In football, it’s a cudgel that teams can use to suppress star salaries because everyone knows that no one (other than Cousins) is willing to play under the tag and risk injury. I don’t know how you could do it correctly or even if you could (some teams just flat out can’t afford their stars)

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #14: September 30, 2021, 08:23:42 AM »
I agree, but basketball has warped it to the point where players sign and then force a trade. In football, it’s a cudgel that teams can use to suppress star salaries because everyone knows that no one (other than Cousins) is willing to play under the tag and risk injury. I don’t know how you could do it correctly or even if you could (some teams just flat out can’t afford their stars)
Agree. MLB is also the only one where they keep young talented players under team control at cheap prices for so long. If they want to give the home team an advantage in keeping players need to shorten that time.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #15: September 30, 2021, 08:47:19 AM »
Agree. MLB is also the only one where they keep young talented players under team control at cheap prices for so long. If they want to give the home team an advantage in keeping players need to shorten that time.
you could maybe accomplish this by saying extensions signed up through arb-1 only count 50% against the luxury tax threshold for the first 4 years of free agency, and 80% for all years thereafter.  It'd be a big incentive for teams to sign guys early while making "testing the market" less advantageous for star players. Waiting it out to FA means bidding teams will be paying full cap hit instead of discounted money, so a team will only do that if it really needs the player and has nothing internal on the horizon. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #16: September 30, 2021, 08:51:25 AM »
you could maybe accomplish this by saying extensions signed up through arb-1 only count 50% against the luxury tax threshold for the first 4 years of free agency, and 80% for all years thereafter.  It'd be a big incentive for teams to sign guys early while making "testing the market" less advantageous for star players. Waiting it out to FA means bidding teams will be paying full cap hit instead of discounted money, so a team will only do that if it really needs the player and has nothing internal on the horizon. 

The problem is that it does nothing for teams who are unwilling to even approach the caps. You just hammer home to their fans that their owners are cheap and they shouldn’t find another sport to watch

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #17: October 01, 2021, 12:12:34 AM »
It seems owners who give contracts to players for 10 years or more are taking a real chance. The average age of MLB fans is 57 according to a study in 2017. The percentage of fans under 18 is 7%. From 2015 to 2019 before the pandemic attendance dropped 7.14%.


Offline varoadking

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #19: October 25, 2021, 01:07:48 PM »
It seems owners who give contracts to players for 10 years or more are taking a real chance. The average age of MLB fans is 57 according to a study in 2017. The percentage of fans under 18 is 7%. From 2015 to 2019 before the pandemic attendance dropped 7.14%.

That "Average" age seems quite high, doesn't it?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #20: October 25, 2021, 01:28:57 PM »
That "Average" age seems quite high, doesn't it?

I think baseball definitely skews older. I would have said 50 if I had to guess, so it seems high, but not shockingly high



Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #23: November 09, 2021, 10:34:35 AM »
The "average" age of 57 seems suspect...if that's "mean age of season ticket holders of 10+ years tenure who have landlines" then maybe.  Certainly the average age at the ballpark is less than that unless it is a blue plate special Caturday Bovril giveway matinee.   

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #24: November 09, 2021, 10:49:54 AM »
The "average" age of 57 seems suspect...if that's "mean age of season ticket holders of 10+ years tenure who have landlines" then maybe.  Certainly the average age at the ballpark is less than that unless it is a blue plate special Caturday Bovril giveway matinee.   

I think DC is an outlier in baseball. The nats are somehow the 'cool' team in town and nat park is a great place to go on a summer evening. I think the Lerners can thank Snyder for systematically alienating the fanbase for that one though