Author Topic: CBA Negotiations- 2022  (Read 7418 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #100: February 01, 2022, 09:53:56 AM »
I think the MLBPA is under tremendous pressure not to cave. Objectively, they lost the last round- player salaries are shrinking. Even the NFLPA would never sign off on a deal that resulted in smaller salaries. I think we miss games.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #101: February 01, 2022, 10:26:44 AM »
I think the MLBPA is under tremendous pressure not to cave. Objectively, they lost the last round- player salaries are shrinking. Even the NFLPA would never sign off on a deal that resulted in smaller salaries. I think we miss games.

the MLBPA doesn't seem to realize that baseball is in decline, well, professional sports outside of the NFL in general.  I saw that NBA and NHL attendance are both down around 5% this year. The NFL is the exception to the rule.

So the obvious rule change to get people back to watching baseball is to make it full contact:
- Fielders can block bases, runners must get through them to reach base
- Outs are made by successfully hitting a runner with a baseball
- Pitchers can attempt to stop batters from reaching base on a hit

Essentially, make it look like t-ball.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #102: February 01, 2022, 10:35:37 AM »
That's been my assumption the whole time. I don't think they'll bang the whole year. Everybody knows it would be a disaster to lose the whole year. I think they know it would be really bad to even miss a little bit of the regular season.

I assume they'll miss the start of the season simply because I believe Manfred DGAF and the PA is run by total morons. Sad!

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #103: February 01, 2022, 10:48:06 AM »
the MLBPA doesn't seem to realize that baseball is in decline, well, professional sports outside of the NFL in general.  I saw that NBA and NHL attendance are both down around 5% this year. The NFL is the exception to the rule.

So the obvious rule change to get people back to watching baseball is to make it full contact:
- Fielders can block bases, runners must get through them to reach base
- Outs are made by successfully hitting a runner with a baseball
- Pitchers can attempt to stop batters from reaching base on a hit

Essentially, make it look like t-ball.

Revenues aren't falling in the same way as salaries.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #104: February 01, 2022, 11:29:52 AM »
They're kind of stuck in a crappy framework.   They need to blow it up and greenfield it.

MLBPA is under the impression that the free agency market is broken and not enough teams are trying to win.  But in reality, the owner's have become wise that free agency is not a good path to competitiveness because they are bidding on players at or approaching the downside of the aging curve.  That seems to be the elephant in the room that no one wants to see, and because the free agent market forces aren't working in the players favour, all the other mechanisms get pulled down too.

The other part no one talks about is the giant cloud of uncertainty around RSNs.   That's collectively 2-3 billion dollars/year of revenue, and at least half of it is in danger of evaporating in the next year or two.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #105: February 01, 2022, 06:32:11 PM »
at this rate they'll have an agreement around the time House is ready for the Majors.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/mlbpa-drops-proposed-bonus-pool-allotment-from-105mm-to-100mm.html

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #106: February 04, 2022, 09:25:03 AM »
We aren't going to see baseball for a while: MLB will not counter the last offer of MLBPA, and has requested a federal mediator.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/mlb-requests-federal-mediator-to-help-resolve-lockout.html

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #107: February 04, 2022, 09:48:44 AM »
We aren't going to see baseball for a while: MLB will not counter the last offer of MLBPA, and has requested a federal mediator.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/mlb-requests-federal-mediator-to-help-resolve-lockout.html
bring on Sotomayor again!  Worked in 1995.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #108: February 04, 2022, 10:05:50 AM »
bring on Sotomayor again!  Worked in 1995.

They should hire Nathan Thurm.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #109: February 04, 2022, 02:17:10 PM »
Players reject mediation and blast the owners for breaking their promise to deliver a counter-proposal

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #110: February 04, 2022, 04:13:31 PM »
Players reject mediation and blast the owners for breaking their promise to deliver a counter-proposal

Offline welch

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #111: February 05, 2022, 03:00:38 PM »
Sign an agreement! Take us from all the sick stuff boiling up from the sexual abuse cesspool called the Redskins / WiFTies / Commanders.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #112: February 05, 2022, 03:55:51 PM »
I usually side with the owners in their disputes with professional athlete unions, but it's hard not to conclude that the owners have been acting in bad faith this entire time.

Offline welch

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #113: February 06, 2022, 12:48:20 PM »
The Athletic quotes a few to explain why the MLBPA quickly rejected mediation:

Quote
Mediation is a voluntary, non-binding process. Players and agents looked skeptically at MLB’s desire to involve a mediator for a bevy of reasons, including the possibility it was in part a PR ploy. A league source described the league’s interest in mediation as earnest, but players nonetheless didn’t think mediation was necessary at this stage.

“How can MLB request for there to be a mediator from the federal government to help with negotiations when they literally haven’t even done any negotiating up to this point? Asking for a friend,” Giants pitcher Alex Wood wrote on Twitter.

The MLBPA famously had a poor experience with federal mediation during the 1994-95 strike. In 2019, Don Fehr, the head of the MLBPA during that strike, called the mediation process “a joke” that had “no value.”

“The ploy used by the league to hire a federal mediator to work through the lockout is a tactic to show they are bargaining in good faith,” Mitch Garver of the Twins wrote on Twitter. “We the players want to get to the bargaining table ASAP to get ready for the 2022 season.

“The only thing holding us back is the league dragging their heels on negotiations that will lead to lost games in 2022. I feel bad for the fans mostly because I know all players want to be at ST in a few weeks, so when we’re ready to figure it out the players will be ready.”

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #114: February 07, 2022, 12:11:16 PM »
Owners are meeting this week in FL, hopefully we have an idea of if there is any hope once the meetings are over.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #115: February 07, 2022, 02:19:47 PM »
They can only hide the lack of progress for so long. After the Super Bowl and before March Madness, people will notice the lack of anything going on and the pressure will start to ramp up. Of all the pre-season stuff the leagues engage in, spring training is probably the most prominent, even over the NFL.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #116: February 07, 2022, 02:33:31 PM »
They can only hide the lack of progress for so long. After the Super Bowl and before March Madness, people will notice the lack of anything going on and the pressure will start to ramp up. Of all the pre-season stuff the leagues engage in, spring training is probably the most prominent, even over the NFL.

yeah but there's the NFL draft, NHL/NBA seasons, plenty to keep interest going away from MLB. spring training starts so early now that no one but the diehards even cares when teams report.

that said i overall agree there will be some more media attention on the lockout once we get through the SB and officially miss reporting days.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #117: February 07, 2022, 02:34:43 PM »
They can only hide the lack of progress for so long. After the Super Bowl and before March Madness, people will notice the lack of anything going on and the pressure will start to ramp up. Of all the pre-season stuff the leagues engage in, spring training is probably the most prominent, even over the NFL.

The scariest thing to the MLB should be the absolute lack of interest in the lockout. It's not even a story on ESPN.com's front page. That should terrify owners and players. Both are counting on public pressure to get this settled before actual game checks and stadium revenue is lost, but what happens if spring training doesn't happen and the public doesn't care?

Online dracnal

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #118: February 07, 2022, 03:54:30 PM »
The scariest thing to the MLB should be the absolute lack of interest in the lockout. It's not even a story on ESPN.com's front page. That should terrify owners and players. Both are counting on public pressure to get this settled before actual game checks and stadium revenue is lost, but what happens if spring training doesn't happen and the public doesn't care?

'We are locking the doors and we won't have baseball again until you cave from the pressure!' <-- mlb
'We won't cave because the fans will be on our side. We're the ones they cheer for on the field!'<--mlbpa
'Oh. Looks like Atlanta won MLB. Guess that's it....' <-- 2022 fans

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #119: February 07, 2022, 04:19:19 PM »
The scariest thing to the MLB should be the absolute lack of interest in the lockout. It's not even a story on ESPN.com's front page. That should terrify owners and players. Both are counting on public pressure to get this settled before actual game checks and stadium revenue is lost, but what happens if spring training doesn't happen and the public doesn't care?

This.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #120: February 07, 2022, 05:29:39 PM »
The scariest thing to the MLB should be the absolute lack of interest in the lockout. It's not even a story on ESPN.com's front page. That should terrify owners and players. Both are counting on public pressure to get this settled before actual game checks and stadium revenue is lost, but what happens if spring training doesn't happen and the public doesn't care?

considering probably 1/3rd of MLB owners (at minimum) don't actually care about baseball, good luck getting them to give up a dollar in the name of giving more to players. rockies ownership would probably rather sink the league than lose $10 million in revenue. fun!

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #121: February 07, 2022, 06:05:07 PM »
considering probably 1/3rd of MLB owners (at minimum) don't actually care about baseball, good luck getting them to give up a dollar in the name of giving more to players. rockies ownership would probably rather sink the league than lose $10 million in revenue. fun!
I think the issue this time is that the pie may be shrinking.  So the fights over the crumbs left will be even worse than usual.  Sad that they cannot negotiate with each other like grown ups. 

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #122: February 08, 2022, 07:46:52 AM »
The scariest thing to the MLB should be the absolute lack of interest in the lockout. It's not even a story on ESPN.com's front page. That should terrify owners and players. Both are counting on public pressure to get this settled before actual game checks and stadium revenue is lost, but what happens if spring training doesn't happen and the public doesn't care?

I've practically given up caring as it is. I've got three trips to Europe booked (and re-booked through the pandemic) for late March, April and early May. Finding alternatives is not difficult...during the 1981 strike I rediscovered my interest in classical music and opera. If baseball does come back and the voices of Charlie and Dave, along with the crack of the bat, are once more heard in the land, then I'll be back...but in the meantime I'll be all right.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #123: February 08, 2022, 02:04:53 PM »
It is a kind of boring lockout too.   No one seems to be fighting for any major changes, just some numbers that most fans don't understand or follow too closely.   In past baseball and other sports lockouts, people have taken sides, but I think most fans are pretty much against both the owners and the players on this one.

There's also very little hope that this will in any way be a win for fans.   I don't see any reason to think anything that comes of this will help the Nats be able to build up quicker or keep Boras stars like Soto past team control.

Also, it sucks that we'll probably get the DH in the NL, and that is going to kind of hurt to me anyway.

If they don't start until July or so, and combine that with a couple COVID tainted seasons and I can't help but think they lose a lot fans forever.   

Both sides are fighting over pennies and in doing so risking millions and millions of future dollars.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #124: February 08, 2022, 02:22:23 PM »

There's also very little hope that this will in any way be a win for fans.   I don't see any reason to think anything that comes of this will help the Nats be able to build up quicker or keep Boras stars like Soto past team control.

If they don't start until July or so, and combine that with a couple COVID tainted seasons and I can't help but think they lose a lot fans forever.   

Both sides are fighting over pennies and in doing so risking millions and millions of future dollars.

This is a league that had direct connections to their major league product in scores of cities across the country through minor league affiliates. Did they effectively use those connections to grow interest in the sport or in the league itself, especially when entertainment options at home kept expanding?

Did they prioritize long-term planning to figure out ways to do that and revamp things so as to maintain the asset of their nationwide footprint through the minors?

Or did they — via the purveyor of the piece of metal — appear to rush out changes that seemed to catch stakeholders like the owners as well as city and county governments off guard, as they dramatically slashed their footprint in the minors, evidently souring relationships to the point that lawsuits started flying? When you mentioned future dollars, this is what came to mind.