Author Topic: CBA Negotiations- 2022  (Read 4619 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #75: December 06, 2021, 01:54:32 PM »
Speaking of days that would live in infamy  :P
ooohhhh! sign with the Hiroshima Carp tomorrow, 12/7. 

Offline nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #76: December 06, 2021, 01:55:49 PM »
Could a player sign with an npb team to play next year during the stoppage?  If they’re locked out, what’s preventing a pre-arb player from signing a deal in Japan that pays him more?  And what would happen when the lockout is resolved?
I think it depends on if the leagues have agreements with each other.   I think i remember NHL players playing in the KHL because they didn't have any agreements respecting each other's contracts.   But I think I remember the CFL has agreements in place with the NFL and won't allow team controlled players in either league without agreement by both sides.    These are based on my fuzzy memories though and may be wrong.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #77: December 16, 2021, 01:51:33 PM »
The Athletic is reporting that both sides have met to discuss rules-related issues, but the expectation is that they won't resume negotiating over economic-related issues until January.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/mlb-mlbpa-not-expected-to-discuss-core-economics-until-january.html

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #78: January 07, 2022, 04:07:40 PM »
Could trading draft picks reduce the timeframe it takes to tank?  If a team can trade players for picks and get 20 picks in the top 10 rounds in one year,  wouldn’t they have to tank for only a year or two as opposed to drawn out accumulation rebuilds?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #79: January 07, 2022, 04:42:39 PM »
I could see the MLB opposing that to protect dumb owners from themselves

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #80: January 09, 2022, 04:47:59 PM »
...it's quiet...too quiet....

Offline skippy1999

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #81: January 10, 2022, 03:58:31 PM »
...it's quiet...too quiet....
right? Pitchers and catchers should be reporting in like 5 weeks :(

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #82: January 10, 2022, 04:57:52 PM »
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/01/mlb-expected-to-make-core-economics-proposal-to-mlbpa-within-two-weeks.html

I'm guessing both sides are looking at needing to settle this thing by March 1 to avoid impacting the season.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #83: January 11, 2022, 12:33:16 PM »
Passan says negotiations are scheduled to resume on Thursday and the owners will present their latest core economics offer.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #84: January 11, 2022, 12:53:55 PM »
I thought I heard someone mention they could just extend the current deal a year.  Is that what they'll end up doing?   It's a very strange negotiation so far.   The points they are fighting about are pretty minor compared to other stoppages in MLB and other sports, yet they are barely talking to each other it seems.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #85: January 11, 2022, 01:05:31 PM »
I think we miss games. The MLBPA was seen as folding by membership the last time around, I don't think they can afford to look like they didn't fight as hard as they could.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #86: January 11, 2022, 02:18:06 PM »
I think we miss games. The MLBPA was seen as folding by membership the last time around, I don't think they can afford to look like they didn't fight as hard as they could.
I agree. The owners position seems pretty reasonable, the players want to fundamentally alter the economics of the game. I don't see much common ground unless one side caves, and I don't think the players understand that baseball is in trouble, or they do, and their view is that they need to force owners to field competitive teams to turn things around.

Offline Smithian

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #87: January 11, 2022, 03:48:18 PM »
I think we miss games. The MLBPA was seen as folding by membership the last time around, I don't think they can afford to look like they didn't fight as hard as they could.
I don't think we get more than 120 games. I think the level or hatred between both sides is ugly.

I admit in spring 2020 I was not following sports closely. But it seemed basketball and football were desperate to compete while baseball owners and players were guns up at each other.

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #88: January 13, 2022, 08:13:08 PM »
Some details on todays session. Some movement by the owners:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/01/details-on-todays-cba-negotiations.html

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #89: January 14, 2022, 08:47:13 AM »
Some details on todays session. Some movement by the owners:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/01/details-on-todays-cba-negotiations.html

It's interesting that now MLBPA wants to shorten the service time needed for free agency.  Marvin Miller used to boast after the Messersmith decision that the smartest thing he did was to stagger free agent eligibility rather than have every player be a free agent as soon as they were out of contract.  He said that by having players not eligible for FA until after 6 years and having arbitration, he ensured there'd be a scarcity of good players available and would create bidding wars.  Maybe that used to be true, at least until analytical types began to understand age curves and the value of players under their team controlled years, and before the luxury tax created incentives not to just buy everyone. 

Offline Smithian

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #90: January 19, 2022, 01:37:09 PM »
It's interesting that now MLBPA wants to shorten the service time needed for free agency.  Marvin Miller used to boast after the Messersmith decision that the smartest thing he did was to stagger free agent eligibility rather than have every player be a free agent as soon as they were out of contract.  He said that by having players not eligible for FA until after 6 years and having arbitration, he ensured there'd be a scarcity of good players available and would create bidding wars.  Maybe that used to be true, at least until analytical types began to understand age curves and the value of players under their team controlled years, and before the luxury tax created incentives not to just buy everyone. 
On service time, I instinctively think it needs a fix. Every time I hear a fix related to age, minor league time, anything, I can think of ten new problems.

I don't think there is a good fix.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #91: January 19, 2022, 02:01:42 PM »
On service time, I instinctively think it needs a fix. Every time I hear a fix related to age, minor league time, anything, I can think of ten new problems.

I don't think there is a good fix.
As a fan, I'd like to see a lower free agency age come with some mechanisms that make it far easier to sign home grown FAs.   

Offline imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #92: January 24, 2022, 05:06:42 PM »

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #93: January 29, 2022, 12:13:53 PM »
I really love the idea that is being discussed right now of creating a "bonus pool", where non-arbitration eligible players who had good seasons will receive bonuses at the end of the year, and the money for the bonuses will be taken out of central MLB funds. It rewards pre-arb players who do good work without breaking the way teams are built and without creating a financial burden for small market teams.

I hate the idea of a salary floor but I believe it would accomplish a lot of what MLB players want without being TOO burdensome for all but 1-2 owners.

It's interesting that the MLBPA sees expanded playoff as a "pro-owner" thing: they believe that teams like the Dodgers would suddenly spend less if they were assured of a playoff spot. I would have assumed that overall expanded playoff would be pro-player because it would decrease the number of teams who feel a need to hit the rebuild button, and THAT is what is keeping a lot of marginal FAs unemployed.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #94: January 29, 2022, 02:13:27 PM »
I agree if that if the playoffs become "everyone gets a medal," then it decreases the incentive to be exceptional.  It probably does contribute to salary containment.  Whether that is made up for by teams not needing as big of a tank to be in playoff contention (hello, Lerner) or it leads to a bunch of teams saying "we are 83 wins now, if we get to 85 we have a decent shot at the playoffs," I think in theory you  are right.  I think in practice, players believe high earners drive the salaries of everyone up.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #95: January 29, 2022, 05:44:36 PM »
Highly favored teams that lose in the LDS seem likely to react to it by saying "freak it we're signing whoever this year's Gerrit Cole is" than by saying "the playoffs are a crapshot, we're going to trade Yu Darvish" so it does not make sense to me to say that expanded playoffs decrease the incentive to create superteams. But again the MLBPA has much more at stake and has likely done far more analysis of this question, hired more consultants to study it, etc.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #96: January 29, 2022, 07:34:21 PM »
Highly favored teams that lose in the LDS seem likely to react to it by saying "freak it we're signing whoever this year's Gerrit Cole is" than by saying "the playoffs are a crapshot, we're going to trade Yu Darvish" so it does not make sense to me to say that expanded playoffs decrease the incentive to create superteams. But again the MLBPA has much more at stake and has likely done far more analysis of this question, hired more consultants to study it, etc.
Not sure what analysis they could do on a situation that has not existed. Except for 2020.  I don’t think there is much to their thinking. They would rather not take the chance. More guys with early golf dates with the current system.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #97: January 29, 2022, 11:47:41 PM »
I always thought the PAs position on expanded playoffs was a pretty simple equation of owners get more revenue, and more players play more games for no extra money.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #99: February 01, 2022, 09:32:15 AM »
That's been my assumption the whole time. I don't think they'll bang the whole year. Everybody knows it would be a disaster to lose the whole year. I think they know it would be really bad to even miss a little bit of the regular season.