Author Topic: CBA Negotiations- 2022  (Read 589 times)

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Online Natsinpwc

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #25: November 09, 2021, 11:26:17 AM »
I think DC is an outlier in baseball. The nats are somehow the 'cool' team in town and nat park is a great place to go on a summer evening. I think the Lerners can thank Snyder for systematically alienating the fanbase for that one though
Lots of folks will go to baseball games in person but not follow on tv.

Online UMDNats

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #26: November 09, 2021, 01:48:06 PM »
Considering the average age of Congress is 95 it skews the numbers.

Offline English Natsie

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #27: November 09, 2021, 04:33:03 PM »
The average age stat is one to keep an eye on - you have an example of what can happen just over the water, in the Caribbean. In the '70's and '80's West Indies cricket was the unstoppable machine, sweeping all before it - across the islands, cricket was everything. Then satellite TV came along, showing NBA coverage. Pretty soon cricket no longer really mattered to West Indies youth - they all wanted to play in the NBA, so basketball took over. Now West Indies cricket is nowhere.So if MLB loses its young fanbase, they'll not be back.. :(

Online Mattionals

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #28: November 09, 2021, 07:57:32 PM »
The average age stat is one to keep an eye on - you have an example of what can happen just over the water, in the Caribbean. In the '70's and '80's West Indies cricket was the unstoppable machine, sweeping all before it - across the islands, cricket was everything. Then satellite TV came along, showing NBA coverage. Pretty soon cricket no longer really mattered to West Indies youth - they all wanted to play in the NBA, so basketball took over. Now West Indies cricket is nowhere.So if MLB loses its young fanbase, they'll not be back.. :(


So the question really is, what is the loss of MLB viewership and is there a comparable growth of another sport? I don't think soccer has really taken the spotlight that the MLB has had yet. Are the other major sports losing viewers? How much is also due to cord cutting?

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #29: November 09, 2021, 08:12:00 PM »

So the question really is, what is the loss of MLB viewership and is there a comparable growth of another sport? I don't think soccer has really taken the spotlight that the MLB has had yet. Are the other major sports losing viewers? How much is also due to cord cutting?
Why does growth in another sport matter?  I think all sports viewership is down.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #30: November 10, 2021, 12:00:54 PM »
Why does growth in another sport matter?  I think all sports viewership is down.

It would appear so. This from the same article saying the average age of the MLB fan is 57:

"In one way, baseball’s in great company. Of the 24 professional sports that the SBJ and Magna looked at, all but women’s tennis has seen the average age of viewers increase. On the other hand, the only sports with an average age higher than baseball’s are Nascar (58), men’s tennis (61), horse racing (63), figure skating (63) and any form of golf (63 to 64). They’re also the only sports drawing fewer young people, with the under-18 crowd ranging from 6% for women’s tennis and figure skating to a dismal 3% for golf.

Don’t laugh, football fans, because it isn’t as if your sport is looking much better. While the average NFL viewer is 50, only 9% of the NFL’s audience is kids under 18. Blame devices and attention spans all you’d like, but NFL viewership dropped by 8% on average last year, with Sunday and Monday night games down 10% to 12%."

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #31: November 10, 2021, 12:32:25 PM »
It would appear so. This from the same article saying the average age of the MLB fan is 57:

"In one way, baseball’s in great company. Of the 24 professional sports that the SBJ and Magna looked at, all but women’s tennis has seen the average age of viewers increase. On the other hand, the only sports with an average age higher than baseball’s are Nascar (58), men’s tennis (61), horse racing (63), figure skating (63) and any form of golf (63 to 64). They’re also the only sports drawing fewer young people, with the under-18 crowd ranging from 6% for women’s tennis and figure skating to a dismal 3% for golf.

Don’t laugh, football fans, because it isn’t as if your sport is looking much better. While the average NFL viewer is 50, only 9% of the NFL’s audience is kids under 18. Blame devices and attention spans all you’d like, but NFL viewership dropped by 8% on average last year, with Sunday and Monday night games down 10% to 12%."
Lots of people cutting the chord. If friends gather at one persons house to watch the NFL on Sunday the old ways of counting don’t catch that. I think in general the younger generation are fans of the top players rather than having loyalty to a team.

Online imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #32: November 10, 2021, 02:17:44 PM »
my late-teen kids watch hockey, football, and basketball on TV. They won't sit and watch a baseball game on TV. It's too slow for them. However, they do follow baseball, love going to games, and will watch playoff games.

yes, I know, small sample size.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #33: November 10, 2021, 02:30:27 PM »
my late teenage kids watch hockey, football, and basketball on TV. They won't sit and watch a baseball game on TV. It's too slow for them. However, they do follow baseball, love going to games, and will watch playoff games.

yes, I know, small sample size.

My 10 year old loves going to any live sporting event. She will watch soccer and basketball on tv happily. She tolerates football and will leave the room if baseball is on.

Online machpost

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #34: November 10, 2021, 03:06:53 PM »
That "Average" age seems quite high, doesn't it?
I'm in the 300s behind home plate and 57 seems pretty accurate. More like 67, really.

Online nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #35: November 12, 2021, 09:32:13 AM »
My kids are 13 and 15.  They grew up playing travel baseball and soccer, and were into those sports while they played, but i can't of a single time they watched an entire game or even more than 30 minutes.  They did both love going to games live.  Now they've both quit their sports and are obsessed with golf.  They'll watch some golf on TV, maybe an hour tops.   But they seem to be able to watch hours of golf Youtubers and pga clips on YouTube and it was the same with baseball too.   I can't imagine them ever watching sports on TV like we do.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #36: November 12, 2021, 12:31:22 PM »
Infield Gallery is truly Fort Boomer (we are probably the youngest people in our row, and we're old farts); that seems like a bit of a demographic outlier relative to other areas though.  But all any of us have to go on is anecdotal, there's no way that the Nats or MLB will let such data see daylight.   
I'm in the 300s behind home plate and 57 seems pretty accurate. More like 67, really.

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #37: November 13, 2021, 11:24:22 AM »
I'm in the 300s behind home plate and 57 seems pretty accurate. More like 67, really.

That's where I sat and I'm 68. It is pretty much Boomer Nation up there, all right.

Online imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #38: November 23, 2021, 10:25:58 PM »
MLB and the players union agree to move the deadline for tendering contracts to arb-eligible players to 11/30

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #39: November 24, 2021, 10:57:25 AM »
MLB and the players union agree to move the deadline for tendering contracts to arb-eligible players to 11/30
IS this in honor of Aimee Mann ('til Tuesday)?

Online nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #40: November 24, 2021, 11:07:43 AM »
Everyone is predicting all this gloom and doom and I know the relationship between PA and league seems frostier than ever, but from imref's post above, they really don't seem too far part on material economic issues.  https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-cba-negotiations-mlbpa-makes-second-economics-proposal-with-only-minor-changes-per-report/

What are the anticipated issues that neither side will bend on?

Online imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #41: November 28, 2021, 07:57:34 PM »
Quote
“Unless this CBA completely addresses the competition (issues) and younger players getting paid, that’s the only way I’m going to put my name on it,” Scherzer said.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/11/latest-on-cba-negotiations.html

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #42: November 29, 2021, 09:37:31 AM »
You'd think tanking for picks could be addressed with a lottery for draft order at least in the first round. 

Maybe you don't need a floor for team salary, but there ought to be some sort of commitment for teams receiving extra payments for small markets to actually use that towards keeping or acquiring players. 

Maybe a bonus to players in their cheapest years based on the number of games started would help younger regulars who would be the ones most underpaid.  That, and maybe just getting rid of Super 2 and giving all players arb after 2 years would diminish the gaming.

Online imref

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #43: November 29, 2021, 10:05:16 AM »
You'd think tanking for picks could be addressed with a lottery for draft order at least in the first round. 

Maybe you don't need a floor for team salary, but there ought to be some sort of commitment for teams receiving extra payments for small markets to actually use that towards keeping or acquiring players. 

Maybe a bonus to players in their cheapest years based on the number of games started would help younger regulars who would be the ones most underpaid.  That, and maybe just getting rid of Super 2 and giving all players arb after 2 years would diminish the gaming.

the rest of the article implies the players are aware they aren't getting most of what they want. I assume the framework of a deal will simply bump up the minimum salary, maybe to $750k or so, maybe with increases before arbitration to something like $1 m, and some sort of small reduction in the time needed for super-2 status.  That would address a lot of the concerns about the younger players.  I don't think the league is going to budge on a salary floor.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #44: November 29, 2021, 10:29:20 AM »
the rest of the article implies the players are aware they aren't getting most of what they want. I assume the framework of a deal will simply bump up the minimum salary, maybe to $750k or so, maybe with increases before arbitration to something like $1 m, and some sort of small reduction in the time needed for super-2 status.  That would address a lot of the concerns about the younger players.  I don't think the league is going to budge on a salary floor.
Maybe starting super 2 at 2 years, 60 days would take care of a lot of gaming.  This year I think the cut was 116 days.  An MLB minimum of $750K would help vets because it makes the roster filler slots more expensive.  I still think the idea of a bonus for games started for position players with < 2 years go a long way towards fairness for underpaid young regulars. That's even better than some of the competitive balance payments and could come  out of that pool.

Online nfotiu

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #45: November 29, 2021, 01:52:32 PM »
It sure seems like building a cba framework that encourages early extensions of young starts solves a lot of problems for players, fans and owners.    Max getting 43 million a year really emphasizes how much money is going to the old guys.   And then you see all the big names basically put out to pasture in Orange County taking the money and not really competing any more.  It just all feels broken.

Reduce the free agency age by a year or two, have extensions count only 50% on the CBT and not at all for team controlled years, and you'd probably correct a lot of what's wrong and have a better product.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #46: November 29, 2021, 03:32:01 PM »
I think you still have to find a way to fix tanking. Both the players and large market owners can't be happy with teams punting season after season



Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CBA Negotiations- 2022
« Reply #49: Yesterday at 08:56:39 AM »
162 to seed about half of the league in the playoffs. The kids will love it.
well, it's not worse than the NBA and NHL.  Isn't this basically the NFL set up now, except for 3 divisions instead of 4?  The article also talks about having a lottery among non-playoff teams for the top 3 picks, which sounds like the NBA. 

I liked the NBA's play in approach for teams 7-10 in each conference last year, but the NBA is less weather-dependent and so can stretch its playoffs (interminably).  For baseball, 3 game series with no travel for the wild card round, followed by a 5 game division series and 7 for LCS and WS would not be stretched too far.