CBA Negotiations- 2022

[HalfSmokes]

Man, this sucks. I am morbidly curious to see how much attendance and viewership drops and if/when it will recover. I more curious about that then the actual product on the field. What a damn shame.

I think so much depends on how much is cancelled. One week, I think can be forgiven. If they start cancelling months, I think they slip behind NHL and maybe MLS as far as national interest is concerned. Even now, they are nowhere near the NBA let alone the NFL

[nfotiu]

Even if it is 2-4 weeks, we end up with another shortened season that doesn't feel like a real season.   Then there is the rushed spring training that always seems to lead to injuries or big slumps to start the year, and it's really not a compelling product.

[Natsinpwc]

Not sure about anyone else but I was wondering about the minors.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/how-will-the-mlb-lockout-affect-the-minor-leagues/

Additionally college baseball has started. ESPN+ has lots of games.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

College baseball doesn't sound right.  Ping!  Ping!   

[nfotiu]

College baseball doesn't sound right.  Ping!  Ping!   

And more and more are moving to all turf including mounds which doesn't look right either.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I think so much depends on how much is cancelled. One week, I think can be forgiven. If they start cancelling months, I think they slip behind NHL and maybe MLS as far as national interest is concerned. Even now, they are nowhere near the NBA let alone the NFL

truth is that they don't go head to head very much with the winter sports, which is a huge marketing advantage.  NBA playoffs go up to almost July, then there's basically MLS international soccer, then NFL camps and college soon after, but those aren't enough to push MLB in the summer.  MLB has some resilience.  I realize that the age demographic is not good, but they are so low with early 20s and younger that I don't think a deal or no deal impacts MLB with that demo. MLB has bigger problems there.

Beyond the summer, by September, the NFL dominates, but again I don't see MLB missing a month or two in April and May worsening that.

[HalfSmokes]

truth is that they don't go head to head very much with the winter sports, which is a huge marketing advantage.  NBA playoffs go up to almost July, then there's basically MLS international soccer, then NFL camps and college soon after, but those aren't enough to push MLB in the summer.  MLB has some resilience.  I realize that the age demographic is not good, but they are so low with early 20s and younger that I don't think a deal or no deal impacts MLB with that demo. MLB has bigger problems there.

Beyond the summer, by September, the NFL dominates, but again I don't see MLB missing a month or two in April and May worsening that.

NBA goes through late July, NFL spins up in August. MLS has almost the same schedule as MLB. June though August is also beach and vacation time. I don't think the MLB has the kind of deep cultural relevance that used to ensure that it would bounce back.

[skippy1999]

NBA goes through late July, NFL spins up in August. MLS has almost the same schedule as MLB. June though August is also beach and vacation time. I don't think the MLB has the kind of deep cultural relevance that used to ensure that it would bounce back.

NBA is over in late June, not July. July SHOULD be all baseball's.

[nfotiu]

NBA doesn't go through late July.

I think that the eroding of season ticket bases is MLBs biggest problem.   The last couple years had people getting used to not going to games.   This is the year they need to be making a splash to get people back buying tickets, and instead they are just annoying and alienating their fans. 

Depressed season tickets and a 2023 bankrupt of Sinclair's Sportsnets could really be apocalyptic for MLB.

[Five Banners]

NBA doesn't go through late July.

I think that the eroding of season ticket bases is MLBs biggest problem.   The last couple years had people getting used to not going to games.   This is the year they need to be making a splash to get people back buying tickets, and instead they are just annoying and alienating their fans. 

Depressed season tickets and a 2023 bankrupt of Sinclair's Sportsnets could really be apocalyptic for MLB.

Nah, Manfred can just come up with some in-game tweaks like putting a runner at third every inning and fix it all

[nfotiu]

I would love to re-imagine baseball with the Dodgers and Giants back in NY to naturally dilute the Yankees fan base.  Have MLB run more like European soccer leagues.   16 teams in the first division all play each other 10 times with 4 team promotion relegation to a second division.   

Put in some financial fair play rules and ditch all the luxury taxes, drafts, team control, and let the market work itself out.

Baseball could really work in a Pro/rel model, I would think.   

[HalfSmokes]

I think a pro/rel model may hurt the major league product, but for secondary and tertiary cities, suddenly the mud hens competing for promotion to the majors, or Norfolk fighting to stay in AAA could really make the sport much more popular nationally. Of course the value of the major league teams would plummet, especially those that end up demoted so it will never happen.

[Natsinpwc]

The European pro soccer leagues are dominated by the same few teams every year. The relegation thing is a way to keep things interesting for teams that have no chance at a championship.

[nfotiu]

It's obviously a far fetched fantasy, but teams like the Marlins who draw 10,000 fans if you are creative in counting, shouldn't be in the top league.   

This whole North American sports model is a house of cards that will probably collapse in its own greed.   They get by on billions from subsidized stadium deals and the cable tv carriage fee swindle, and a convoluted mess of luxury tax and revenue sharing.

If local TV deals dry up, and national TV deals are basically obsolete for regular season, then there is no reason to keep these low attendance teams around.  They'll just be a drag on the league.

[UMDNats]

It's obviously a far fetched fantasy, but teams like the Marlins who draw 10,000 fans if you are creative in counting, shouldn't be in the top league.   

This whole North American sports model is a house of cards that will probably collapse in its own greed.   They get by on billions from subsidized stadium deals and the cable tv carriage fee swindle, and a convoluted mess of luxury tax and revenue sharing.

If local TV deals dry up, and national TV deals are basically obsolete for regular season, then there is no reason to keep these low attendance teams around.  They'll just be a drag on the league.

In Nashville the Titans announced they need stadium renovations to keep up with the league and said it would cost $600 million minimum (?!) so they should just build a NEW stadium and demo the old one and there has been absolutely 0 pushback from the city or local media. Just complete acceptance that the price tag for a new stadium is $2 billion and requires the city to sell some of the most valuable undeveloped land in America under market value to billionaires. The MLB to Nash group says they want a privately funded stadium but we all know that's a lie.

The entire NA sports model is so god damn greedy that I almost hope it all collapses. At least NFL owners are greedy because they are top dog in the country. MLB owners are so greedy despite their sport literally dying every year.

[nfotiu]

I think a pro/rel model may hurt the major league product, but for secondary and tertiary cities, suddenly the mud hens competing for promotion to the majors, or Norfolk fighting to stay in AAA could really make the sport much more popular nationally. Of course the value of the major league teams would plummet, especially those that end up demoted so it will never happen.

16 top teams all in one league playing each other every day could be a compelling national product.   Second div teams playing to get in would also be popular regionally.    It would never happen, but it would be better and more sustainable.

[HalfSmokes]

16 top teams all in one league playing each other every day could be a compelling national product.   Second div teams playing to get in would also be popular regionally.    It would never happen, but it would be better and more sustainable.

I think by the time you get to the third and forth divisions is where it would really help the sport. A city like Boise will never get a major league team, but they could have a baseball team trying to get promoted. Austen may have a team that won't have the resources to dominate, but may be able to make the majors on occasion. I think our sports landscape is just too solidified, because Buffalo was a thriving city when the NFL formed or because Baltimore was a major port 150 years ago, they have professional teams, while more important smaller cities never will

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

This is why about 6 billion people were rooting for Apoel (Cyprus) to beat Real Madrid in the Champions League quarterfinals back in 2012.   

The European pro soccer leagues are dominated by the same few teams every year.

[Natsinpwc]

https://mobile.twitter.com/chelsea_janes/status/1499394553106911234

[Smithian]

I have stomached the new bullpen rules. I'll learn to like the universal designated hitter. But a massively expanded playoff will be terrible.

The only joy of the long season is knowing the best teams will clearly separate from the pack. If there is an expanded playoff, 162 games will be a painful drag before you pray your team gets lucky early before the longer series begin.

[Vega]

162 games is already a painful drag. At least maybe more of the teams will actually try and only the absolute bottom of the barrel will tank.

[DPMOmaha]

162 games is already a painful drag.

Interesting. This is one of my favorite aspects of baseball

[HalfSmokes]

Baseball has the most random playoffs. At least a smaller pool makes it more likely that a deserving team actually wins.

[Elvir Ovcina]

In Nashville the Titans announced they need stadium renovations to keep up with the league and said it would cost $600 million minimum (?!) so they should just build a NEW stadium and demo the old one and there has been absolutely 0 pushback from the city or local media. Just complete acceptance that the price tag for a new stadium is $2 billion and requires the city to sell some of the most valuable undeveloped land in America under market value to billionaires. The MLB to Nash group says they want a privately funded stadium but we all know that's a lie.

The entire NA sports model is so god damn greedy that I almost hope it all collapses. At least NFL owners are greedy because they are top dog in the country. MLB owners are so greedy despite their sport literally dying every year.

It sorta boggles my mind that they didn't build the new baseball stadium there in a way that allowed it to expand to MLB dimensions.  When constructed, the land was certainly there, the location's great, etc.

Of course, I live in another TN city that was stupid about baseball stadiums, so I'm in no place to talk.

[HalfSmokes]

It sorta boggles my mind that they didn't build the new baseball stadium there in a way that allowed it to expand to MLB dimensions.  When constructed, the land was certainly there, the location's great, etc.

Of course, I live in another TN city that was stupid about baseball stadiums, so I'm in no place to talk.

One of the first things that would be demanded of an expansion or relocation city would be a very nice very new purpose built stadium